00;00;10;02 - 00;00;53;12
Darice
Welcome to a new episode of Yale College Voices, where we bring you insightful conversations and explore the vibrant tapestry of experiences that make up the Yale College staff. For those of you who don't know, I'm Darice Corey. I'm your host, and I'm delighted to introduce you today to our guest, Matthew McCormick. Matthew serves as the assistant dean of Yale College and director of the Native American Cultural Center, also known as NAC, as host and also, instructor in educational studies, where his primary focus is on supporting native and indigenous students across all disciplines while preserving their cultural heritage and language within the Yale community.

00;00;53;14 - 00;01;31;12
Darice
His research and advocacy efforts center on improving college access and retention for native students, exemplified by his creation of a culturally sensitive college readiness program designed to facilitate the college application and research process. In addition to his administrative role, Matthew actively supports initiatives like the Pre Orientation Program, Cultural Connections, and the Native American Language Program, aimed at fostering a sense of belonging and cultural enrichment among native students at Yale and in the broader New Haven community.

00;01;31;15 - 00;02;10;17
Darice
Matthew's academic seminar, Contemporary Native American K-through-12 and Post-secondary Educational Policy, extends his research on college readiness and retention to address the systemic invisibility of Native American communities in education policy. Through this course, he aims to challenge prevailing narratives and highlight the resilience and achievements of Native American students and communities within contemporary educational systems. With deep commitment to reshaping the discourse surrounding Native American student success.

00;02;10;19 - 00;02;47;23
Darice
Matthew emphasizes the importance of acknowledging and celebrating native cultures and languages within educational environments. Matthew is a dedicated scholar and advocate. He holds three degrees from Michigan State University and has dedicated his career to supporting native and Indigenous students in their academic pursuits. As an enrolled member of the Grand Traverse Bay Band of Ottawa and Chippewa Indians Tribal Nation in Michigan, Matthew brings a personal and scholarly perspective to his work.

00;02;47;26 - 00;03;18;21
Darice
Through his leadership roles at institutions like Yale, the American Indian College Fund, and also Central Michigan University. He has spearheaded numerous programs and initiatives aimed at enhancing college access, retention, and success for native students, leaving an indelible impact on higher education and indigenous indigenous, communities alike. So, Matthew, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so excited to have you here.

00;03;18;24 - 00;03;20;06
Matthew
thank you for inviting me. I'm excited.

00;03;20;07 - 00;03;39;01
Darice
Yeah, absolutely. And so, so, Matthew, I'm wondering if you could tell me a little more about, your upbringing and, and, you know, your background and how you grew up and what what sort of influenced you to, pursue higher education? or your path in higher education?

00;03;39;03 - 00;03;51;17
Matthew
Yeah, yeah. as the kids say, I grew up in the late 1900s. Really? And, my son says that to. Yeah, that's what they tell me anyways. Yeah. you know, it sounds.

00;03;51;17 - 00;03;52;14
Darice
So far away.

00;03;52;22 - 00;04;16;27
Matthew
Yeah, it was the best of times. Yes, yes. yeah. You know, it's. Yeah. I grew up in in Lansing, Michigan, and, I'm originally from Michigan. and I'd be remiss if I didn't do the hand of the students. and usually get a laugh with this. Really? And I point to it, sometimes I don't even say my name, and I just point, and they like to make fun of me.

00;04;16;27 - 00;04;34;24
Matthew
But I did grow up. And it does come in handy in Lansing, Michigan. Here, there's kind of Detroit. Okay. My tribes are grand, traverse Bay band of, Chippewa and then Little Traverse right here as well. we usually leave out the U.P. for whatever reason. you know, but, but, yeah, I grew up in Michigan most of my life.

00;04;34;24 - 00;05;04;13
Matthew
And to, like I said, through all my degrees and, I enjoyed it. Right. And family and friends and, it was exciting and, you know, and a lot of things kind of, led to, my path to higher education, you know, but it was really, a lot of just kind of reflection and thinking about what I want to do and what do I enjoy.

00;05;04;13 - 00;05;25;13
Matthew
And, and how can I see myself. Right. And I gone through, you know, the different stages that, all youth and college kind of go through, right? And figuring out what they want to be and what they're going to do and, you know, and, it was until it was a class in college. And then what? I did it right after a bachelors.

00;05;25;13 - 00;05;45;08
Matthew
It really kind of helped. Yeah. Create that moment where I was like, oh, this, this is what I want to do. What I want to be. Right. And so I had taken a leadership class in college and it was fun. Yeah. Right. And, you know, it was it was, it 8315, I believe, was when it was called in and out of my good friends was in the class.

00;05;45;11 - 00;06;09;00
Matthew
to this day, I still have some really good friends. And, and so it was get it right. And it was, it was people who were, higher education ministry areas, like, graduate students teaching it. And so I remember in class and them talking about it and, and then, I went on to, when I was graduating, I, I wanted to do the walk by this booth and I said, hey, you, you come ski and snowboard in Colorado.

00;06;09;02 - 00;06;26;17
Matthew
I was like, all right, that sounds fun. Sounds good. I've never skated snow around my life. Really? Right. And so I went up living in Michigan. really never. And so I go out there in this resort and I can't ski or and just learning. and I had a blast in Crested Butte and had a really good time, but I didn't.

00;06;26;23 - 00;06;39;26
Matthew
I was like, I can't do this for a while. Yeah, yeah. And so I was thinking about that class. I really enjoy college. And I was like, wait a minute, I can go get a degree where I can stay in college for my life. Yeah, we can do that. Right. And so I did. Nice. Yeah.

00;06;39;28 - 00;06;57;06
Darice
That's great. And I'm curious if you could, you know, share a little bit more about your family. I know that, when we chatted earlier, you spoke of a really large family and how that sort of influence your identity and and your, aspirations as well.

00;06;57;08 - 00;07;23;21
Matthew
Yeah. Yeah, I had my grandparents, 13 children. and again, 50, 60 cousins, maybe more than that. And then we, we have like, you know, there having kids was a really big, but, you know, we were really, really, really close and tight family, even though it was so large. We got together all the time with holiday parties, camping every summer up in northern Michigan.

00;07;23;23 - 00;07;57;02
Matthew
and so really being around a lot of cousins and family and, it was, it was great. Right. And that's why I stayed in for Michigan for so long is when you have a tight bond, right? It's hard to leave and it's easy to stay in and do enjoy and, there's comfort there. And so, yeah, I think, you know, family, really shaped who I was around, shaped my values in terms of who I am as an individual, which, you know, kind of leans into who I am as as, a leader.

00;07;57;06 - 00;08;03;29
Matthew
Right. And my, approach to working with students and working in higher education. Yeah, that's that's amazing.

00;08;03;29 - 00;08;16;28
Darice
And were there, like, specific mentors that sort of came to mind as you were sharing that, that that influenced your journey over the, over the early years?

00;08;17;00 - 00;08;41;23
Matthew
Yeah. You know, I think there's a variety. I think, you know, certainly like, like I said, my mom was, influence, in that, her jobs were related, were working with native organizations. she was in finance and, nonprofits and, and so seeing that is just kind of what I knew kind of growing up and, I didn't like I, I didn't know what I was going to do.

00;08;41;23 - 00;09;09;13
Matthew
Yeah. but I think I always knew it kind of just working with native communities was something I enjoyed, something that felt natural and, and eventually, you know, as I kind of grown to realize it was something I needed to it's to be of service and to, it's just something I enjoy. And so I think that kind of eventually led to, to where I was going to do.

00;09;09;13 - 00;09;12;22
Matthew
Right. Like, I just, I went to work native communities. I didn't know how and where.

00;09;12;23 - 00;09;24;09
Darice
Right, right. Yeah. But it sounded like it sounds like you, you just knew you wanted to contribute somehow or, and help people, right? Because your mom did it for a very long time.

00;09;24;14 - 00;09;48;25
Matthew
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think it's just part of who I was as an individual. Right. And, helping out, you know, there were my younger brother cousins, but just something I would see a lot and see how others were. And my family, you know, help others in times of need. And it's just something that, when you see it and then eventually kind of you become it.

00;09;48;25 - 00;10;01;08
Matthew
And I think it also just fits my personality. Yeah. Yeah. being, more reserved. Right. And quiet and so and I can get on here and I could talk for an hour, but it took a long time to get to this. To get to that. Right? Yeah, absolutely.

00;10;01;08 - 00;10;19;09
Darice
Like, even for me, and I, you know, I say this with every guest, I this wasn't my plan to become to become the host of of the podcast because I, you know, as you know, I, I work in it. So I do the behind the scenes stuff and, it just kind of evolved into me hosting this.

00;10;19;09 - 00;10;37;10
Darice
And it was, you know, it pushed me outside of my comfort zone. so. Yeah, but but I've come to enjoy it because it allows me to get to know people like you and, and, that we normally don't have a chance to even sit down and chat and talk about, like, how you grew up and, you know, all those things.

00;10;37;10 - 00;11;07;01
Darice
So, so I totally I totally feel you're fill you in that, so I'm curious if you could talk about, you know, how, your background, you know, being a member of, the Grand Traverse Bay Band of Ottawa and, Chippewa, Indians. How did that sort of inform your, perspective on, education and advocacy?

00;11;07;04 - 00;11;23;16
Matthew
Oh, yeah. You know, it's a lot like I said, you know, kind of, you know, as you're growing up and, being around family and going through different powwows and different things that, you know, I remember riding with my grandmother and we stopped in the middle of row because he saw the porcupine.

00;11;23;18 - 00;11;24;02
Darice
Oh, really?

00;11;24;02 - 00;11;44;17
Matthew
Went off. And we were picking out the, the needles for for beadwork and stuff. And so, you know, it's something that just I always knew and, I didn't really ever think about it. It was just something that was always a part of. But, you know, and just myself kind of going to college, I, I wasn't I was going to go in the Army.

00;11;44;24 - 00;12;07;15
Matthew
Oh, wow. I was in high school, you know, my mom went to college, right. But again, I didn't ever get pushed into academics. And I was kind of a late bloomer academically, like, you know, I was always looking at somebody else's homework, you know, two hours or. Yeah, 20 minutes before the turn. It did, you know, and, you know, and I got yeah, I got through and it was until later.

00;12;07;15 - 00;12;24;05
Matthew
Right. In terms of I started to, you know, think, you know, critically and think about different things. And so I was a late bloomer to academics. And so I was going to go to the Army. That was my thing. And I had a friend, oh good friends. And he was like, hey, I'm going to apply at, Central Michigan University.

00;12;24;05 - 00;12;39;06
Matthew
So I was like, all right, I'll apply to right, right. You know, whatever. And, I got in and he got in and he's like, I want to apply to Michigan State. I was like, what? Yeah, I was like, okay, yeah, yeah. I was like, all right, I guess I'll apply to Michigan State, you know? And funny thing is I got in and he then.

00;12;39;06 - 00;12;56;15
Matthew
Oh, wow. So you went to two different colleges, but, you know, and so that just kind of happened, right? I was just, I went to a school where most people were going to college. and so I just kind of I was, I fell into, I just kind of was like, all right, I'll see what this is about.

00;12;56;15 - 00;13;19;19
Matthew
Yeah. And then when I went to college and then I'm, you know, how it was academically, I was like, you know, kind of like imposter syndrome, but really, like, I don't know if I'm going to make it through this. Right. And, but I played sports my entire life, like, in five years of, like, football and stuff, and and so I had the mentality.

00;13;19;19 - 00;13;41;12
Matthew
I was like, I'm not going to fail. People expect me to fail and not fail me. and so I did this really, really amazing thing, right? so when I approach to college, did three things right, like, I, I went to class, okay, I did the homework. Okay. Really easy. Yeah. And I studied and study. And then what do you do?

00;13;41;12 - 00;13;50;15
Matthew
Oh, you know, I was on the honor roll. Oh that's amazing, amazing thing. So these three things and who knew I know. And so, you know.

00;13;50;18 - 00;14;15;24
Darice
Yeah, it it's, it's interesting. It's funny you say that because, you know, it's like, I realize it's a challenge, you know, coming, coming into college and, and I and I wanted to ask you about, you know, just what was it like, because it's a very, you know, it's a very big school. Like, how did you, not get sort of lost in the mix of, of students or what was that experience like?

00;14;15;27 - 00;14;34;27
Matthew
Yeah. You know, I again, I really like to think about it and, and reflect. But at some point I was very even though I was quite an introverted, and maybe that was part of it. I was my own advisor. Yeah. Like, you know, you had this big giant book and I read it and you got to go see everybody.

00;14;34;28 - 00;14;49;17
Matthew
I mean, I saw them at the beginning. and then right before you graduate, you have to have them sign off. But I already knew everything because I was reading it on my own. Because anyone, I would talk to anyone. Yeah, right. So I was reading all the policies. I knew all the policy. Really? and what classes I could take and what kind.

00;14;49;19 - 00;15;16;06
Matthew
He had all this down. And so, you know, and so really going into for me, again, being quite an introvert and going through a large campus like Michigan State with like 40,000 plus students and 100 plus people in the classroom, was great because I could just be honestly invisible. But I just could be. Yeah. You know, I just do my own thing.

00;15;16;06 - 00;15;34;23
Matthew
And then friends I did, I yeah, I kind of navigated that way. And so it was good for me. And I could sit in the back and there was a lot of classes where I, you know, you had to socialize and talk and, you know, you study or take the notes . Yeah. Yeah. And so. Right. And so it kind of fit for me at the time or to the point that was in my life.

00;15;34;23 - 00;16;02;23
Matthew
But but really big. Right. And then again, you know, like through high school and through my entire education, there was a lot of native students and a lot of native staff on faculty and my first native faculty teacher until probably my doctoral program. and so not a lot of, mentorship or visibility in that sense, in terms of, but there were there are some there and having access but not really having that.

00;16;02;23 - 00;16;17;06
Matthew
And so really having to do a lot, with my classmates or my peers or on my own, to figure that out. but yeah, it was, it was daunting. Yeah. but again, like I said, I was driven. I wasn't going to fail.

00;16;17;06 - 00;16;44;24
Darice
Yeah. You didn't want to give. Yeah. Yeah. Like come home to say you couldn't do it or anything like that. that's really interesting. I'm curious if you could tell me a little more about, you know, you mentioned that you didn't, see or interact with with anyone with the same background and Native American background. and how did that, you know, did that affect your college years?

00;16;44;24 - 00;17;06;11
Darice
Or, like, I know you said you just, you know, you had it a goal of, like, I'm going to do this in, you know, homework in, you know, homework, you know, study and all of those things. But, did it affect you in that not seeing someone like you, in the community, in the in the college?

00;17;06;13 - 00;17;22;22
Matthew
Yes or no? Right. Like I said, like I said, I grew up in the Lansing area. My all my family was there. And so I didn't have the traditional experience where, you know, people don't really get immersed in there away from family. I was there were still there. Okay. Right. And like, I just go there, you did it.

00;17;22;25 - 00;17;47;08
Matthew
And so, you know, that was kind of my first couple of years. And again, I just had my friends from high school, you know, a few other people I met, and then I had family. And so I wasn't fully immersed, and I always had one, you know, I forgot what they were called, but they were, essentially the equivalents of peoples, since we have here and they she would knock on my door and she was like, hey, you know, there's this name.

00;17;47;09 - 00;18;07;28
Matthew
So that's going on Sunday. Yeah, I do like, hey, I'll be there, I'll be there and never showed up. And they're always come knocking on my door. So finally in the spring I went and, enjoyed the group there and started meeting native students there. And, getting a part of that. And then that's also okay. You know what led me into this field of higher ed to working with college students?

00;18;07;28 - 00;18;16;14
Matthew
And, but it was tremendous, you know, so sometimes you don't know. Oh, well, you don't have until you have it. Right? Right, right. Yeah. Like,

00;18;16;17 - 00;18;17;05
Darice
And you realize.

00;18;17;05 - 00;18;26;29
Matthew
This really would have been it was cool and it wasn't. You did it. Yeah. It would have been, you know, helpful for the first couple years too, but, Yeah. So. Oh that's.

00;18;26;29 - 00;18;46;18
Darice
Awesome. so I'm curious if if you could tell us a little bit more about, you know, when you think of your college years and, and then going into, I was so happy to hear about, the new program, which I think was that did that begin last year?

00;18;46;25 - 00;18;47;27
Matthew
Last year?

00;18;48;00 - 00;18;57;10
Darice
so if you could tell us a little bit more about that in terms of how it helps students who are, more introverted and or shy and things like that? If you could tell us a little more about that.

00;18;57;13 - 00;19;23;15
Matthew
Yeah. Yellow reserved. Yellow reserved is where we're going with, And I love it. Yeah. And, I love the idea of the students in that, it's amazing to see, you know, again, sometimes even just talking and sharing experiences. Right. And it's it's just comforting to know somebody. Yeah, it's feeling the same way, seeing the same thing.

00;19;23;17 - 00;19;51;23
Matthew
And so when we get students together and we talk about these different, but especially in the interviews when I got to interview students and, you know, read about why they chose Yale reserve, it's just amazing because you hear it. So much of it resonated really. I experienced right. And again, you know, of just how to interact with people and, and social settings and, you know, it's, it's, know a wonderful program that, I think it's again, we had a first year, so I wasn't sure.

00;19;51;23 - 00;20;11;22
Matthew
Right. Yeah. I think there was a lot of people. Yeah. And then you get it. And then to hear people how much they enjoy that. Yeah. And how much, it meant to them and to especially, you know, to get on campus in a way that is, is comforting. Right, right. So we, we want to push the students.

00;20;11;22 - 00;20;34;14
Matthew
We don't want to shove them right, right into us. And so, yeah, we want them to get outside their comfort zone a little bit, but we don't want to just extreme over the top. Yeah. So you know in the program, you know I heard go as we're going to keep refining and our challenge is to it's Yale Reserve, but it's really it's not a test.

00;20;34;16 - 00;20;56;02
Matthew
Right. Some people are like, well, I can't go to that talk too much. I'm not right. Yeah, I'm not quiet. And so sometimes people have this idea of what that means, right? Right. You know, to jokes about dance parties. Right, right. And, and things of that nature. Yeah. It's, you know, you're quite shy. You're still you still laugh, you still talk, right?

00;20;56;02 - 00;21;23;04
Matthew
You still write things interesting, right? You just don't always share it, you know, maybe scream or yell. Yeah. Yeah, right. You know, sometimes a smile is the screamer. Yeah. Right. So you know that, really, have students kind of have that opportunity and they share, you know, of getting to know campus. we do a lot of programs, so we, we develop the program in a way that it's really for anybody.

00;21;23;07 - 00;21;48;12
Matthew
and it's designed for people who are quite shy, but it's for anyone. But it's it's really about finding peace. Thank you. Campus. Right. And finding, comfort and safety. Right. And and belonging. And so sometimes figuring out when you have these different things you might see on campus and you feel like you have to be a certain way as a college student and realize not everyone is comfortable with that.

00;21;48;13 - 00;22;07;14
Matthew
Yeah. And there are people who might enjoy the things that you enjoy doing or your approach in the end to college. And so getting people together, but also showing them what that is and to think about, reflections, a big one, right, in terms of but also finding that space of when things are just a little bit too much, right.

00;22;07;17 - 00;22;20;10
Matthew
Where on campus can I go? That's quiet. Yeah, we're in New Haven. Can I go right? Right where? who can I talk to? You're right. If I'm sitting by myself at lunch, it doesn't mean I'm lonely. Yes. Right. Right. you know.

00;22;20;11 - 00;22;21;04
Darice
I really want.

00;22;21;04 - 00;22;36;15
Matthew
Company. Yeah, I just maybe I just might need that. Yes. Yes. But, yeah, it might be lonely, but. Right, right. You never know, right? You never know. But, you know, and so really helping people think through those, and to find others who show up.

00;22;36;22 - 00;23;04;23
Darice
Oh, that's amazing. And I love that because, you know, and I, I've shared this with, with other, guests in the past where, you know, I was a very introverted student myself, during college. And, and it was a challenge for me because I found that I just kept to myself. I, you know, I occasionally would socialize, but like you said, it was a it was like, over-the-top socializing, you know, socializing.

00;23;04;26 - 00;23;36;08
Darice
And if there was a sort of a calmer, you know, setting that just felt more comfortable, I think my my experience would have been so different. So I that's why I was so excited to hear about, the program. So that's awesome. and I'm wondering if you could share, you know, we were chatting, a little earlier of, of, camera and everything, just how how the program came about, like, you know, the story that you shared with me earlier.

00;23;36;11 - 00;24;05;00
Matthew
Yes. Yeah. You know, like I said, I was, I used to direct the Cultural Connections program, which is, you know, it's been a long, you know, program. It's been here a while, and it's a tremendous, wonderful program. I can't say enough about it. The students are amazing. they're supportive of one another in ways that I think are incredible.

00;24;05;00 - 00;24;25;05
Matthew
And I would hope that they kind of take throughout their college career. Right. Like, whether you're the worst singer in the world, people just get up and scream like you're the best thing in the world, right? Yeah. And not in a very condescending way, but a real meaning. Like, I support you. And so it was incredible. And that program and I miss that program.

00;24;25;05 - 00;24;49;08
Matthew
Right. In terms of being around that, but it was very high energy and, I'd like to say it was a fit, but it was just kind of very low energy. Right? Yeah. Which is good. Right? I, I still run the program. I didn't have to be high energy, but like, you know, and so it was a great and there was a couple things that happened, a couple three years or 2 or 3 years ago.

00;24;49;10 - 00;25;11;05
Matthew
so we were going to Yellow Lake or the other rec center and to the lake. Normally I drive and, this time I, had a screw in my tire, like, maybe an hour before the bus. And so I took it over to get the change there were going to take a few hours, so I was like, I, I'm just going to have to ride the bus and went with a bus over our there five hours at the lake, an hour coming back.

00;25;11;05 - 00;25;30;26
Matthew
And, and to be honest with you, I didn't. I mean, people talk to me, but we talk. Talk. But I was just around people, and sometimes it's just being around people. And that people know that they're observing me. Sometimes you feel like you're on. Yeah. So yeah, my so my social energy coming back was gone and I was right on the bus and I was right.

00;25;30;26 - 00;25;49;25
Matthew
I remember sitting next to a student, but they were so tired. They're sleeping. Yeah. Nobody's talking to me. And and the bus drivers going, I don't know what they were doing, but I'm just. Yeah. In my head, every, like, thing you could think of as a yelling go! Yes, yes. And then I realized I just I needed to be alone.

00;25;49;25 - 00;25;56;15
Matthew
I needed like, space. I needed just I couldn't handle. And it was it was really stressful. And so if they.

00;25;56;15 - 00;25;58;05
Darice
Say like, too much people leaving.

00;25;58;11 - 00;26;13;22
Matthew
Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, I wasn't even talking, so let's not talk. It's just having people observe you. I am okay with strangers observing me, but like, if people like they know me and like, then I always feel like I have to be know and I have to be on. Right? Like I can't see them, you know.

00;26;13;23 - 00;26;34;27
Matthew
Yeah. So you see, he had like five goals or some, I don't know, like I don't, you know, so he's just always conscious of that and just being on the entire time. so in combination with that and then also we had some students that year. So culture connection. So this journey maps and people share kind of like this where they're start, you know, their family in their beginning and how they got to this point.

00;26;34;29 - 00;26;42;03
Matthew
And sometimes it gets really emotional. And I think we had some students who went to it and then come back on the first day and they're like.

00;26;42;06 - 00;26;42;27
Darice
It was too much.

00;26;42;28 - 00;26;55;27
Matthew
They're like, I can't do this. Yeah, I don't want to do this. So I'm not going to do this. I'm not just going to show up really well. And so I was like, oh, and I was thinking about those things. And then the opportunity came to develop. We needed so there's a change and we're adding more programs.

00;26;55;27 - 00;27;12;29
Matthew
And so it's like, I have this idea, it sounded great in my head. I didn't know if it was actually going to work. And that's kind of how it how it all came about. Right. And, and a moment where you just broke me. Right, right. And that was like, I need a program like this because you.

00;27;13;01 - 00;27;45;12
Darice
You're not the only one who probably, you know, who felt that way, which is also, Yeah, I love that story because it's so true. Like, it can be exhausting. Or like you said, you're self-conscious or even for other people if they're not sharing and they're hearing these stories and, you know, like you said, they're, emotional. It's it's depending on, you know, and who knows what, you know, their backgrounds may be, but maybe it was just, like, too much, you know, like, too much sharing, you know?

00;27;45;14 - 00;28;13;03
Darice
So that's also, I'm wondering if you could share, you know, we talked about, you know, some of the challenges you faced, in your college years and how, like, how did you, deal with navigating, you know, as a native student, navigating the educational system and, you know, overcoming, you know, challenges that that you came across.

00;28;13;06 - 00;28;44;06
Matthew
yeah. That's it's, and again, I think it's going to be individual, you know, our base for different people. And, you know, whether that's experiencing, stereotype in curriculum to, attitudes and, perceptions and, and it can be challenging. It can make you want, you know, especially if it's coming like from a faculty member, if somebody or a staff member, it can make you feel like you want to quit.

00;28;44;06 - 00;29;10;07
Matthew
Right. there's to come. Yeah. I'm not doing this. This is awful. and I think it's a lot of processing that and figuring out how to still kind of push through. And it's going to be different for different people. And, you know, for me, it was just a matter of, you know, it's again, coming back a little bit.

00;29;10;07 - 00;29;26;00
Matthew
Again, I think sports influenced a lot of my life, too, as I talked about, you know, I did a lot more toughing out than I did when I probably should have been talking out. Really. Right. You know, talking with people and, like.

00;29;26;00 - 00;29;27;10
Darice
Just sort of internalizing.

00;29;27;10 - 00;29;47;15
Matthew
Internalizing. Right. And, you know, so it's and just kind of dealing with it. Right. And so my approach really isn't the best approach. right. But I'm sure there's a lot of people and again, you know, you don't share feelings. You don't see how you're doing. You just kind of just get through it. Just get through it.

00;29;47;15 - 00;30;12;19
Matthew
Yeah. And, and so, yeah, in some ways that toughened me to the point where, like some of the stuff that might happen and I'm like, yeah, that's yeah, whatever. But you know, yeah, brush it off. But you went it probably is a bigger deal than it is. but you know, it kind of changes and especially now I have children and you know, we've had homework come home.

00;30;12;22 - 00;30;33;00
Matthew
I think with kindergarten that I think it was kindergarten that said, it was learning about, again, November, which is the worst time for indigenous people at tober. November. Right. Because you going to have Halloween and then you have Thanksgiving, right? Right. And so you have a lot of stereotypes and misconceptions that arise in different ways.

00;30;33;02 - 00;30;50;28
Matthew
so they were learning about the Mayflower. And one of the lines was that the Europeans, when they came over, they had to bring guns because they heard the Indians were mean. Right. And again, so a kindergartner. Yeah. Reading about this that. Yeah. Yeah. That the natives are means you have to bring guns. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

00;30;51;01 - 00;30;55;07
Darice
like really indoctrination of. Yeah. You know this stereotype.

00;30;55;08 - 00;31;13;13
Matthew
Yeah. It's you know, just going out to dinner. We were in town in a few years ago, and it was, you know, a long week. It was tired or anything. We're just going to go out, eat some as my family or remember just trying to relax and unwind. Yeah. And, my son's like, hey, take a look at this.

00;31;13;13 - 00;31;33;29
Matthew
And, you know, those little placemats so you can play games on. so one of the games was had like this stereotypical native people on there with like, they're pilgrims, but they were like basically the, the point of the game was, is you have to get the pilgrims across the river. At no time can there be more of this as Indians.

00;31;33;29 - 00;31;51;05
Matthew
I think it was about, Indians than pilgrims on the boat at one time. Right. Or the oh, I forgot. Yeah, I'll match you or something. All right, so hire me with some way. And so I was like, really? Yeah. Like, now I have to talk to the manager. I'm just trying to relax, I know. Right? And so out.

00;31;51;06 - 00;32;12;09
Matthew
Sometimes you just want to live. You want to be an advocate. You don't want to do all this, right? Just do this or not. I just want to be right. And so, yeah. So that's the hard part. And again, you know, even with work, right. You know, I'm working I've been working with native communities my entire career and I've enjoyed it.

00;32;12;11 - 00;32;33;12
Matthew
but the hardest thing is when your job is also your identity. Yeah, it's difficult because everything's personal. Right? And so if I worked in the career center, most of my job was about helping people get jobs right? Yeah, but everything here with natives, like. Yeah, you know, that kind of comes up and it's personal as well. But that's also my job.

00;32;33;12 - 00;32;55;14
Matthew
And trying to figure out how to do your job and manage, but also personal family. That's right. That's a real challenge. it can wear on you quite a bit. And so, so the kind of the same thing is going through the education system. It's a it's really hard to, have that and kind of go through that.

00;32;55;16 - 00;33;06;01
Matthew
and you want to be an advocate and, you know, and I do all this, sometimes you just want to. Yeah. You just want to be. Right. And that's really finding that balance and trying to make sure you can just be. Yeah.

00;33;06;02 - 00;33;42;07
Darice
As well I can't imagine. Wow. and and you know, that it reminds me of, my prior guess. dasia Abu also, Ference, the father who, for example, Daisy is of Cuban descent and, at a very early age, she served as her parents translator, for many things, you know, for for really whatever you can imagine, you know, whether it was speaking to teachers or speaking to, you know, utility company and that kind of thing.

00;33;42;10 - 00;34;14;05
Darice
And she mentioned how, exhausting, you know, that it could be to, to constantly be on and constantly have to, you know, serve in that capacity where sometimes you just wanted to be a kid, you know, which, you know, I can imagine, like you said, it's like you just wanted to be out with your family and and do, you know, just do family stuff and not have to turn your, you know, put on your advocacy hat, and.

00;34;14;07 - 00;34;36;24
Darice
Yeah. So I can imagine how difficult that is. I'm curious, kind of turning, from those challenges that that you face, that you faced early on, in your college years and even into today, like, how did how does that, shape how you work with, with students and how you mentor students?

00;34;36;26 - 00;34;59;21
Matthew
Yeah, I think a lot of it, you know, it and again, a lot of reflection. So I think a lot and I've kind of grown, as a leader and really thinking about, who I want to be. Right. Like, I so initially, you know, I didn't know, college access. I a lot of careers, a lot of that's focus because when I was going to college, I didn't as I said, I was no where I was going to go.

00;34;59;21 - 00;35;17;14
Matthew
I was going to go in the Army, right? Right. I didn't have a lot of hope and taking this class or going to college visits. And so that was a big part of my drive to was to make sure that other students who were like me, had those opportunities. And so, you know, I was at the college fund, we and we had this grant to, help students go to college.

00;35;17;14 - 00;35;44;16
Matthew
Right. So the college, going. Right. So the college going right is when high school students, graduate, if they go to college, like within a year. Right. And for the national average, it's like 68, 70%. But for native people, there's no number, national number. But you you look at state numbers that were like 40, 30%, right, 30% below to where if you look at even like, some more reservation based students, they might even be lower down 20%.

00;35;44;16 - 00;36;05;25
Matthew
Right. And so we have all these students who are tremendous and not, you know, and not they have the ability, but maybe not getting the mentorship or seeing the opportunity. And so how do we get those, even those were a small population, 50%. Right. Like, you can change that makes a giant difference. And so that always pushed me.

00;36;05;27 - 00;36;21;14
Matthew
and again, when I got out of college, I didn't know where I was going to do. Right. And so it took me a while. Again, I never visited the career office. And so I put students to that. Think about that too, as I go. And it's like, college is fun and you're having fun. You want to have fun to the very last moment, but then you have to think, you have to lead, right?

00;36;21;14 - 00;36;37;05
Matthew
And you have to go somewhere. And so helping them think about that. So those two things really helped me. drive me in in terms of working with students and then pushed me to that. and, I mean, the question, I go back, oh.

00;36;37;12 - 00;36;45;25
Darice
just in terms of, yeah. Like how how your, experiences shaped, you know, shape how how you.

00;36;45;25 - 00;37;07;27
Matthew
Interact with students. so those are the two things. So, so even here, you know, I do a lot with, admissions and, working with, and again, like I said, my previous, role because I was I got to go all over to different reservations and meet with students and, and it was you can tell when you meet with a student, you're talking about cars or that's the first time someone's talking about it.

00;37;08;03 - 00;37;22;09
Matthew
Yeah. Right. And, you know, or or counselors or teachers saying, oh, you know, when they hear about where they're on the bar, that's great. Let me get you who I think's going to college. Oh, wow. Right. And I'm like, no, how about you give me all of them? Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah.

00;37;22;12 - 00;37;45;03
Darice
Because do you come across students who, maybe just never even thought it could be an option, you know, for them or or, like you said, we were talking about imposter syndrome and, you know, maybe they just thought that it couldn't be a possibility for them to attend a school like Yale. And.

00;37;45;05 - 00;38;04;17
Matthew
Right. Yeah. Because, you know, I tell people there's college for everybody. It doesn't matter what level you're at, where you're at. there's amazing stories you can get to where, you know, everyone has the same path. Everyone goes from high school to Yale to the career. You might go to a community college, right? But then you can still end up with a PhD and end up at amazing places.

00;38;04;17 - 00;38;30;09
Matthew
Right? And so there's different paths there for everybody has their own. And not to compare yourself, but to understand that there is a path, an avenue that you do belong. In college, we hear a lot of, there's a lot of messaging that, again, whether whether you look up native education success, right. You can Google it. And six out of the ten top responses are going to be about native students failing even though you put success.

00;38;30;11 - 00;38;49;08
Matthew
Right. And so we get a lot of messages about failure not living up there or don't belong. And so I really try to tell people that they do belong in college. Right. And there is a place for you and there is a path and you can do it. That doesn't matter where you you might not have been good at math in 10th grade, but you might later, right?

00;38;49;08 - 00;39;13;24
Matthew
You don't. You're not the same person in your whole life. Yeah. Spanning change and you grow. You continue to grow and work. And so I think that's really important. So that's what really drives me in terms of working with students. And you know, again, just really figuring out other. And then the kind of third part is trying to and again, you know, I don't even like forcing mentorship.

00;39;13;24 - 00;39;30;18
Matthew
But like, you know, if people ask and I talk to people, I try to share what I've known or give different advice and you have to be careful because I'm a little bit different than others, right? Yeah. Yeah. You're not going to get the same thing. you know, you know, I, I grew up with, eight aunts.

00;39;30;18 - 00;39;46;05
Matthew
And so it wasn't always like, oh, I think, is that wonderful? Right. Like, sometimes it was. Would you expect. You're right, you're right. What did you think? What was going to happen. You did that. Yeah. Yeah. And so and so I grew up with that. Right. And so I'm trying to make sure, you know, soften my approach.

00;39;46;08 - 00;40;03;11
Matthew
what I was, was used to, but also, you know, just really helping people think about, what is the purpose of education, right? What is the purpose? What is the purpose for me? Yeah. What do I want to do? What am I trying to accomplish? who do I want to be and how do I want to be that way?

00;40;03;14 - 00;40;23;15
Matthew
Right. And and how do you act and how do you work with others? Right. There's always a constant challenge to be better and to be, native in the way I was taught was it's really hard, right? It's not easy because there's certain things, and certain values. Right. You might want to really get mad at somebody or critique something, but that might not be the cultural value.

00;40;23;15 - 00;40;53;09
Matthew
Right? Yeah. Figuring out how, you know, how do you how do you process. Yeah. And how do you move forward and how do you support and build up each other. Right. And so I'm constantly, you know, trying to do that every day. And some days I do it better than others. but really, I think the, the biggest one is, is that, you know, again, I'm here to support them when that I want them to succeed.

00;40;53;10 - 00;41;00;19
Matthew
Yeah. Right. And I'll be there for them. And, and try to help give guidance in any way I can. Okay. That that's.

00;41;00;19 - 00;41;24;18
Darice
Amazing. I'm curious, because you mentioned your your big family early, earlier on. how do you pull that into your work in the, in the cultural center, like in terms of, you know, you're basically creating, that kind of same environment for students, right. or can you tell us a little more about just what you do at the cultural center?

00;41;24;21 - 00;41;46;03
Matthew
Yeah. You know, we're one of the smaller cultural centers. but we're small but mighty. Yes, yes. And small has its advantages as well. Right. We are, a little bit, I'd like to say like, because there are fewer people. Really. People get to really know each other or have fewer groups. Some of the other groups have 50 student groups.

00;41;46;03 - 00;42;07;00
Matthew
We have like three. Right. And sometimes there's crossover. Right. So it's the same people. Right. so some of that strength is really knowing, others and really having that kind of community kind of, vibe. But aspect I'll be a back side of that is if people don't get along right, right, right. There's a bigger splash right in the community.

00;42;07;00 - 00;42;25;06
Matthew
That sometimes could happen too. And I think really our approach to our center is really being open and inclusive to anyone. all right. And at any CC, that's what we try to do, even if you don't like somebody and they come in right. We're going to be respectful. It doesn't mean we have to be friends, but we're very respectful, right.

00;42;25;06 - 00;42;45;20
Matthew
And we try to create that space for people. And then CC means different things for different people. Some people are there every day. Some might come for food, some might just come now and then. but we're here for whoever. And however the, you know, want to approach it and are ready to, be a part of the center.

00;42;45;20 - 00;43;05;28
Matthew
So I think that's our approach and we're open to everybody. I just want to get that out there. That's not just native students. non-Native students come through, we have different events. So really what we're about isn't just serving native students, but we're also talking about and educating native, topics and visualizing on campus or making visible on campus.

00;43;06;01 - 00;43;21;23
Matthew
so we partner with a lot of programs and I'll say here, you know, and again, I tell you all, I'm not just because they pay me. Yeah, yeah. but that there's a lot going on that other centers are not. Other departments are doing related here. It's bringing indigenous scholars and that then SCC doesn't try. Right.

00;43;21;23 - 00;43;43;27
Matthew
So, other institutions I've been anything native 90% of the time would be my office doing, whereas here they'll be like, hey, we're bringing so-and-so. Do you want to co-sponsor? right. So there's a lot happening. And because again, native people are not just culture and history, right? When we talk about education, we're also engineers, scientists, mathematicians, public health.

00;43;43;27 - 00;43;55;09
Matthew
Right? We're in all these different fields doing amazing things. And so there's a lot of ways you can bring indigenous people, even in statistic and math. Right, as well. So it doesn't have to be culture and history.

00;43;55;14 - 00;44;02;21
Darice
That's amazing. Or are there any, upcoming, you know, events that that you don't mind sharing?

00;44;02;23 - 00;44;26;00
Matthew
Yeah. You know, you. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. So I don't know whether it's coming out, but, post spring break, we have a few things. We have a native elder coming in. Doctor Henrietta. Man. Oh, wow. We have a boarding school panel right there. The first week after that, we have our graduations, our big one that we go to the the Mohegan casino at the end of the year.

00;44;26;03 - 00;44;49;17
Matthew
but this year, we also have, you know, again, I think what I did talk about is not just Native American. We think like, lower 48. We have Alaska Natives and, Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders, Pacific Islanders, I mean, Pacifica culture is really kind of grown within this, this last year, we've been really intentional, you know, of trying to hold space, right?

00;44;49;17 - 00;45;04;24
Matthew
And when I first got here, we had like a mixer. That was it. And then the next year I was like, we got even more than that. We did a mixer. I think we did. Had, a speaker, okay. Right in the kind of room. But eventually, you know, we started creating a space and again, I give all the students a credit for this.

00;45;04;26 - 00;45;29;01
Matthew
But we created a space now where students we've always had historically, like 1 to 2, usually Native Hawaiian students that would be a part of the community. So now we've grown to where the students have created a Pacifica student Indigenous peoples of the Oceania Student Group, which has like over 35 members. Oh that's right. So it just kind of I believe they're always here.

00;45;29;01 - 00;45;51;18
Matthew
Yeah, but they just they didn't have a space they could gather and connect. Yeah. And now they do. And I think that's awesome. And so to say that there's, Pacifica first is going to happen like April 5th or six, wherever that Saturday is, which will be amazing. And then again, I don't know, I'm sure it has a long history, and there might have been a Pacifica event in the past, but we're not aware of any.

00;45;51;18 - 00;46;08;16
Matthew
Right. This might be the first kind of major. Yeah, event and. Yeah. Where we can, let people know that Pacific students are here. And here's a little bit about the. And, and really kind of bring them into visibility on campus as well. So we're really excited about that.

00;46;08;21 - 00;46;24;05
Darice
Yeah. That's fantastic. And I and I love that you mentioned that the events aren't just for, you know, native students that people who want to be educated and, and want to learn that it's open to everyone, which is awesome.

00;46;24;11 - 00;46;24;24
Matthew
Yeah.

00;46;24;26 - 00;47;06;00
Darice
So, so, you know, we talked a lot about, you know, your, your, college experience and, you know, just how all these things, shaped, how you approach, mentoring students and educating students. were there any pivotal moments that sort of, influenced your career trajectory? I know that you mentioned, which, was it really interesting to find out that if first you wanted to join the Army and then you thought you would do accounting, and then you either, you know, decided that that wasn't for you.

00;47;06;03 - 00;47;23;00
Darice
but were there certain I know that you mentioned earlier on that, you know, you found that really helping people, and it sounded like it came from childhood, right? Like just helping people, helping your community, really influenced your career trajectory.

00;47;23;02 - 00;47;37;09
Matthew
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I can only one. It's funny because, again, you have to fully share that. And I was. Yeah, I did accounting in high school. oh. Yeah, I like this. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to make money. Because I didn't grow up with money. So I was like, money is important. I'm going to make money.

00;47;37;09 - 00;47;57;08
Matthew
And so that's I'm going to college for and I went into accounting class and they, sat down large lecture hall, and they were passing out sheets and they had, like, Kellog, spreadsheets and stuff. I'm like, looking through this. And I was like, class hasn't started yet yet. And I was like, I don't want to do this for the rest of my life.

00;47;57;10 - 00;48;14;24
Matthew
So I put the stuff down on my seat, I walked out. Did you change my major the next day? I didn't even give it a chance. They even gave one minute. But the class, did it ever start? Yeah, yeah, I got the handouts and it was just like, I can't do this. Yeah, yeah. you know, but thinking about I might have been able to do it, but, no.

00;48;14;24 - 00;48;32;11
Matthew
So I think it was just kind of was just a growth, of, of understanding who I was and who I am. Right. And I think sometimes that happens quickly from people by others. It just takes time because you have to really think about it. Who who am I? Right, right. What do I enjoy, what I enjoy, what do I like?

00;48;32;11 - 00;48;51;11
Matthew
What do I not like? Because we're always just going wherever. Yeah, kind of life takes us right through this or do that, but we never really process of like, is this for me? Yeah. And so like I said, I think just from my own experience in terms of going into college and that process, it helps me in, in what drives me in terms of helping students.

00;48;51;11 - 00;49;14;13
Matthew
Right. And then to, to really so I mean, that's kind of the moment, like I said, is really, my experience. And then I want others to have better right than what I had or to have the resources that I didn't have. Right. so constantly trying to do that too, with my children and like, I give them things and do things that maybe I didn't have access to or expose them to.

00;49;14;13 - 00;49;33;23
Matthew
And, you know, and so, I mean, there's a trade off, right? Like I said, I think there's some, you know, people say, well, you can't do everything for people, right? Yeah. But again, people who are exceeding or always getting their hands right, right, right. People who have, you know, maybe wealth or access to tutors and have all these things, right, that they're getting.

00;49;33;26 - 00;49;48;22
Matthew
That's how they're succeeding. Yes. And so, you know, I believe in trying to do the same thing. I believe in hand-holding, right. And letting people get comfortable until they're ready. you know, that's not how I went through it, but that's I believe that's the right way because you're providing support.

00;49;48;23 - 00;49;49;14
Darice
Exactly.

00;49;49;14 - 00;50;09;16
Matthew
And the system. And that's what we're here to to. And I again, at some point they have to go on and do it on their own access. But but it's sometimes it's just being comfortable in that process and a new place and trying to figure it out. Yeah. is really important. So I think that's what drives me is to give indigenous and even indigenous students stuff that I didn't have.

00;50;09;16 - 00;50;23;04
Matthew
And maybe they're not getting me some of them I have it right, but maybe some of them don't. I didn't have that mentorship and I have that person to help guide them. I think is a critical to success, and that's just something I enjoy doing. Yeah. In general.

00;50;23;06 - 00;50;45;26
Darice
that's awesome. let's see, I, I wanted to talk more about, you know, we we talked about your, high school years and then going into your college years and then, moving into your, you know, your current, professional years. are there.

00;50;45;26 - 00;50;50;21
Matthew
My older years? Your old years. All right. I love my elder years of years.

00;50;50;23 - 00;51;21;01
Darice
I love how you mentioned, how students say the early 1900s or late 1900s, you know? yeah. Like, how do you envision, you know, the, the trajectory, like you said, of, of of, native students, success, like, now that some of these programs are available and, and like you said, you, you know, what your experience was in, in, college.

00;51;21;04 - 00;51;31;27
Darice
What are some of the things that you see changing, you know, maybe in the near future or maybe in the next few years in terms of what, you know, the the work that you do here at your college.

00;51;31;29 - 00;51;52;25
Matthew
Yeah, that's a great question because a lot's changed. from a world perspective. Right. In terms of visibility, even though we have a long ways to go, we have like native shows, we have native actors, we have native movies. Right? So we have these things that we can visibly see. Right? We have even though, you know, people have different perspectives of land acknowledgments.

00;51;52;25 - 00;52;10;27
Matthew
But like, again, in the late 1900s, yes, that'd be unheard of, right. Of somebody saying, hey, right, right. And so, you know, there's different ways that are to be seen a little bit more visible. On the flip side, there's still a lot of ways where we're invisible, right. And so there's a lot of work to be done that way too.

00;52;10;29 - 00;52;41;27
Matthew
And so I think, you know, access and the different programs and college access programs begin, but they're not reaching everybody. Right? Right. They're reaching more people than maybe ever before. But there's still so much more to go. And so I think the work is really, and then maybe it's just the approach I'm taking. But I've been lately just listening to a lot of not just native but also non-native, just leadership and really thinking about characteristics and, and leaning on, values and leadership values.

00;52;41;27 - 00;53;11;05
Matthew
And what does that mean? And how do we live that in our lives. Right. And so we can rate it and say, and people like look on Facebook and that sounds really good. But I tried to live some of these things. Right. Here is the challenge. Right. Putting it on. You know social media is easy, right? Right. But actually trying to live the, the whatever, you know, again, native people and indigenous people have different cultures and different traditions, but whatever those values are for your community and really looking at that and trying to figure out how am I going to live that.

00;53;11;05 - 00;53;40;18
Matthew
Yeah, yeah. And what does that mean? And sometimes that's really hard, right? Because sometimes that means I can't critique people. I shouldn't be critiquing people, even though that's the first thing, I guess. Yeah. Critique. Critique. Right. That's your kind of, to even, you know, you know, again, working with others and finding that forgiveness and, you know, I still have boundaries that you're not walked over, but also have the opportunity that we are forgiving people and where you're allowing for growth in that way.

00;53;40;18 - 00;53;57;14
Matthew
And and so that's something that I'm constantly trying to think for myself. But in a way, and again, I don't want to push things on different people. So you kind of see where they're at a lot of times are kind of going through the same thing. So sometimes, you know, that growth and challenges that you go through, youth you still go through as as you get older too.

00;53;57;14 - 00;54;13;29
Matthew
Right? Again, I'm getting older. And so what is what does I want to do, you know, near the end of my career and what do I want to be and how do I want, what do I want to achieve and how do I want to interact with people? I want those relationships to be like. And so it's different, but it's also the kind of the same thing.

00;54;13;29 - 00;54;38;23
Matthew
So you're still kind of going through that reflection and figuring out how to, to really what does it mean to be you and what is my purpose on education? What is my what am I trying to accomplish? Yeah, yeah, I think it's very like going about what is it? Right. And I want us, our world where people are open and inclusive and welcoming of each other.

00;54;38;26 - 00;55;05;07
Matthew
you know, again, again, certainly you need boundaries, but, you know, being open to other ideas and other possibilities. And it doesn't mean you have to believe. I just kind of figure out how do I interact with this person and how do we, you know, disagree. Like, I think learning how to disagree is the biggest, yeah thing, not only for students but for for everyone really is figuring out just because we disagree doesn't mean I hate you or I don't like it doesn't mean I have to don't like you, right?

00;55;05;07 - 00;55;12;25
Matthew
Right. It just means I have a different opinion. You share when I share one, and wherever we have to go is fine. But I'm just sharing. This is what I believe in. You might believe something different.

00;55;12;25 - 00;55;15;04
Darice
And having that safe space to, you know.

00;55;15;06 - 00;55;16;04
Matthew
Trust. Yeah.

00;55;16;04 - 00;55;21;26
Darice
They're feeling okay with with expressing your thoughts or, you know, your feelings.

00;55;21;26 - 00;55;43;00
Matthew
Yeah. And it's hard, right? Because sometimes, you know, I'll be in meetings. I'll do it once. and then there'll be something else. They disagree. And I was like, man, I can't disagree. Yes. Right. And again, I won't be. That person disagrees like three times in a row. But you know, sometimes that happens. But it's figuring out how to, to deliver that in a way that that is with kindness and I think that's hard to do.

00;55;43;03 - 00;56;07;03
Matthew
And it's hard to learn. It's hard to to figure out on that approach in those moments. so really trying for me, that's again, the process I'm going through is how do I, approach things with kindness, but with also with boundaries and direct, right, and trying to figure out how to do that. And I think that's something that, you know, that I think, you know, not so teacher value.

00;56;07;03 - 00;56;24;08
Matthew
But again, something we're hoping for our students to right that they can can do that as well. And so that's just kind of my perspective or my approach or where I'm at right now in my, in my life and where I'm kind of going. And so, but it's a challenge and,

00;56;24;11 - 00;56;46;23
Darice
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that because, yeah, absolutely. It's it's, like you said, as a leader, finding ways to, like you said, setting those boundaries, but at the same time, having that safe space to express, you know, your opinion or.

00;56;46;25 - 00;56;48;01
Matthew

00;56;48;03 - 00;57;13;12
Darice
Your or if you disagree, but but doing it in a constructive way that doesn't, you know, what you don't want to happen is for someone to express like, maybe I disagree with an opinion, but then if you shut that person down, in that moment, they may never express it again. So so finding that balance, That's amazing.

00;57;13;15 - 00;57;39;16
Darice
so so I'm wondering, if we can sort of, jump into it. And if you notice, we're almost off on our our already. So I had a few more questions for you, but, you know, as we're coming to the end of our conversation, what is there a particular message or insight that that you would really like our listeners to?

00;57;39;19 - 00;57;51;03
Darice
you know, to hear regarding the importance of just supporting our, our native and indigenous, students here, at Yale or even just in general in higher education.

00;57;51;06 - 00;58;15;26
Matthew
Oh, gosh, that's a tough one. You know, I, I think it's important to, you know, to believe in the student and to if you're a mentor, tell them, right, like, what their strengths are and tell them that they can do and achieve and support them. And like you said, if somebody has a dream to not crush it, necessarily feel like you can't do this or that's not possible, right?

00;58;15;26 - 00;58;31;13
Matthew
To figure out how to how could it be possible, and what would that look like for it to be possible? What would they need to do? Right. So maybe if there's work to be done. And so I think again, as I talk about when you're younger, sometimes you'll hear those things and they'll just cross, oh, I can't do this and I won't do this.

00;58;31;13 - 00;58;48;04
Matthew
And they don't believe in me and not going to do it. So it's easy for people to spiral. But I think really figuring out how to be supportive. And like I said, I again, I believe in hand-holding. So I believe in helping people as opposed to being like, you can't do this, right? Right. And having them to be like, try to figure it out in spite.

00;58;48;07 - 00;59;09;23
Matthew
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Succeed in spite. Like I'd rather succeed with support. With support. The support that you I would like to have. Right. Yeah. And and and again whether you're a native or non native as you can do that and then the learn right. I think a lot of stereotypes and challenges come from people. It's just lack of knowledge sometimes of what might be appropriate or not appropriate.

00;59;09;23 - 00;59;28;16
Matthew
And again that's tending different events and attending different, programing and asking those questions. And again that's where it comes from. Being native is being able to answer those and not be offended by the questioning. Like that's really the question because sometimes they might just not know. And so hopefully it's coming from that good space, negative learning place.

00;59;28;16 - 00;59;49;01
Matthew
Right. Or they're just trying to learn and trying to grow and then being able to do that. and again, different people, you know, understanding again like for me that makes sense because this is the field I chose, right? I can't tell people like, I don't want to I can't opt out. Right. This is my job, right? Whether it's hard or not hard, I chose that's my job.

00;59;49;01 - 01;00;10;22
Matthew
Right. And so that part of my job is to help educate people. Right. And that is my role, I do believe, because again, if you the hope is that if you do that, then they'll learn and they'll know. And it makes it easier, maybe later down the line as they do work with people. So I think the biggest thing is, is to learn a little about history, learn about native people, to learn about contemporary native people.

01;00;10;24 - 01;00;26;15
Matthew
and not just, you know, new stories. but really meeting people and that they are. You know. Yeah. Even though we have this kind of stoic look we are, we laugh a lot. We have humor. Yes. Right. And so I think that's important. Yeah. Absolutely.

01;00;26;17 - 01;00;59;09
Darice
and I'm glad you shared that because. I think it's so important to you know, you mentioned, the fact that if someone were would come to you just to have a conversation or help dispel a stereotype or whatever, that, that, you know, it's coming from a good place and that you would like to help educate them or, you know, assist them through whatever their question may be.

01;00;59;12 - 01;01;27;05
Darice
and I think that's important because it's, it's people may hesitate because they're worried about saying the wrong thing or saying something offensive, and they may not even know what you know, what can be offensive. Like, if there's something, you know, if it's a phrase that's been used so much that people don't even realize the origin of, of, you know, term or or something like that.

01;01;27;07 - 01;01;51;20
Darice
or like you said, when you're in the restaurant and the or passing out these, coloring books that they don't even realize how people may feel seeing that, so it's important in having that, that sort of safe space and for someone to be open to that, because I can imagine that it could be exhaust. Right? It can take a toll on you.

01;01;51;20 - 01;01;52;24
Darice
Right?

01;01;52;27 - 01;02;12;28
Matthew
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it does vary. But like I said, I, you know, as I say to my students, smile and wave right from the penguins. And so sometimes you just have to smile and wave. Yeah. right. And you know, and like you said, you gotta hope that's a good place. If it doesn't feel like it's a good place, you know, you don't have to engage in the conversation.

01;02;13;00 - 01;02;35;17
Matthew
Right. And figuring out, you know that's the other part of learning to figure out how to opt out of a conversation and then not have to answer. I mean like, oh, let me think about that and I'll get back to you. Right. Yeah. Figuring out how the, you know, techniques to to to adjust. But yeah, it's it's it's constant and you'll have different days where you can do it in different days where you can when you can't.

01;02;35;17 - 01;02;40;21
Matthew
It's just very, and, and that you get yourself out of there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01;02;40;24 - 01;03;06;09
Darice
I'm wondering, if you, you know, let's say in, you know, in a, so, so to speak, perfect world, like in terms of thinking ahead to next year, are there certain if if there could be one, initiative or goal, is there something that you would love to see implemented? for students, this coming year?

01;03;06;12 - 01;03;22;13
Matthew
that's a good question. And like I said, I think you go to different routes, right. Like, I think, from a college access point, figuring out some sort of program that we could do to work and help, I think people can. That's like an idea, but just in general with counselors. And we are kind of working on that with, the message and target people.

01;03;22;14 - 01;03;50;13
Matthew
We're working on a college access kind of, conference and it started with just like this counselor breakfast for Native and Indigenous counselors to come to. And then this year, we're going to try to expand it to students. I would really like to see it to a full Nova England, indigenous college access, where native students are come to us and different colleges, not just, you know, we'll be there and students.

01;03;50;13 - 01;04;14;23
Matthew
And that helped talk through the different steps. And I think and to see because again, to see students going to college is also important when you can see yourselves. Right. And so that's important too. So I think that would be, you know, really growing and expanding that I think, you know, there's a lot of work and things, like I said, with figuring out how to how students.

01;04;14;23 - 01;04;36;13
Matthew
Right. Because not everybody comes and ask. There's different reasons, right. Because when you are close and tight, it might feel like it's hard to get in. right. Because, you know, like, everybody's just everyone knows each other. And so you I mean, that come back. Yeah. but figuring out how to really meet the needs of indigenous students, that doesn't always fit the traditional way that we've been doing things.

01;04;36;16 - 01;04;51;10
Matthew
I'm definitely not, a person I like just to do, like, it's October 5th. This is what we do October 5th. Right? Right. Like, I mean, we can do a little bit of that, but I'm very big on trying different ideas and but the different students that come through and the ideas I have and from laser tags. Yeah.

01;04;51;10 - 01;04;53;24
Matthew
Yeah. like fun stuff. Yeah.

01;04;53;28 - 01;04;55;03
Darice
Activities and.

01;04;55;06 - 01;05;14;05
Matthew
Comedy. Like, indigenous arts. I am doing a, indigenous comedy night I think is coming up. Oh, really? So we did start a group. It's kind of pseudo it faculty and staff and students. And there's a project. Oh, yeah. So there are some students who are in, you know, improv groups. And so it's so cool. Yeah. And so you just kind of get up there and you just just talk.

01;05;14;09 - 01;05;19;05
Matthew
You just go with it. Yeah. So you're right. And they laugh at you and that's fun. Oh that's great.

01;05;19;12 - 01;05;21;12
Darice
And it's here on, on campus.

01;05;21;12 - 01;05;24;24
Matthew
It's on campus. I think it's April 1st. Oh, nice. Nice.

01;05;24;26 - 01;05;37;07
Darice
Yeah. Hopefully we'll we'll release a episode before that and let everyone know. Know about it. it should they. So in terms of events for the cultural center, just out of curiosity, should they visit the, the website or.

01;05;37;09 - 01;05;55;17
Matthew
Where we can visit the website? Yeah. Okay. that's sometimes going be all right. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Hunter. you can also, I would say Instagram. Instagram. Okay. And then we have a newsletter that you can sign up. So if you do visit the website and sign up for the newsletter okay, okay. The newsletter, I have weekly things that I'll kind of come out.

01;05;55;17 - 01;06;02;15
Matthew
And again everyone's welcome to those. Oh it's kind programing and there's a lot of different topics and things that might be of interest.

01;06;02;23 - 01;06;07;24
Darice
And on your Instagram, is it like NAC.

01;06;07;26 - 01;06;08;29
Matthew
Yale natives, Yale.

01;06;08;29 - 01;06;30;11
Darice
Natives. Got it. You'll natives. since we're, you know, like I said, we're we're wrapping up our, our time together and I, you know, I, I it's been just fascinating getting a chance to know you and hear more about, you know, your childhood and growing up. so I kind of want to shift to, you know, things, more about you.

01;06;30;11 - 01;06;41;12
Darice
Like what? What kind of things do you do to relax or, you know, do you have hobbies? What are some things that are your favorite, things to kind of detach from all of your work here at Yale?

01;06;41;14 - 01;07;01;13
Matthew
I walk, you walk, I walk a lot as. Oh, it's been called. Yeah, I get older. I can't walk out in the cold. Yeah. you know, my goal is to walk a million steps in that month. Oh, wow. Oh, so the last two years, the first year, you know, I made it three days, and then the fourth day, my body was like, yeah, one more step, you know, it's over.

01;07;01;17 - 01;07;22;11
Matthew
Yeah. And then the next year I tried, you know, I got I got 12 to 13 days and I got almost two weeks of walking. pace. Yeah. And but it was hard because it's time consuming. Yeah. I have to walk. I walk slow, so it's, you. But I was averaging 33,000 steps. My goal is I got a I got a get a day.

01;07;22;11 - 01;07;27;21
Matthew
I got to get going a day. Oh my gosh, I'm trying. I usually try in the summer because you got to go in. That's really.

01;07;27;27 - 01;07;28;18
Darice
Really.

01;07;28;20 - 01;07;47;24
Matthew
Really late. Yeah. It's warm so I can go throughout the whole day. Oh my goodness. But I have walking with the the students. Yeah. They can have meetings. I mean the walking meetings. That's what helps too. And again, student told me they know my tricks. We walk and that means we don't have to have eye contact. You just walk side to side, head down.

01;07;47;25 - 01;08;06;23
Matthew
Right. And they're like, they're like, I stole this from you. And I did this. The really? I was like, yeah, I can't. Yeah, it's hard for me that to do too. I'm sure I looked all over the place, but, you know what I do? Yeah. Walking. again. so I have a part time job, as a bus driver with my kids.

01;08;06;25 - 01;08;13;03
Matthew
Oh, really? Oh. That's cool. I drive my kids everywhere, you know? Oh, I mean, yeah.

01;08;13;06 - 01;08;14;19
Darice
I was I was like, how do you fit that in?

01;08;14;19 - 01;08;15;06
Matthew
No, no.

01;08;15;09 - 01;08;17;11
Darice
But I call myself mom Uber.

01;08;17;12 - 01;08;34;06
Matthew
Yeah. Uber bus driver. Yeah. Yeah I, I go to my bus route back which is awesome because you know, they can being able to pick them up. Yeah is tremendous. And, that's something I miss the days when they were younger. When you drop them off. Yeah. School run. Yeah. Yeah. Know. Right. Like I don't know what is when work is right.

01;08;34;08 - 01;08;46;18
Matthew
Door shuts. There's sprinting. Yeah. So yeah it's the most you know there's a couple when I was traveling I miss dropping them off and so I missed that. But yeah that's always the amazing thing is was.

01;08;46;20 - 01;08;52;09
Darice
Yeah when they rented the door. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny. But, how old are your kids? Are they.

01;08;52;11 - 01;08;54;28
Matthew
Are they. They're not. Yeah. Yeah. They're okay.

01;08;55;00 - 01;09;08;07
Darice
Yeah. Like so I have a ten year old and and this past fall was the first time they, he told me I was I was not allowed to walk him to the door anymore. And I was like, but that was the best part, you know, that was that was my part.

01;09;08;07 - 01;09;10;15
Matthew
You know, but.

01;09;10;17 - 01;09;11;06
Darice
yeah.

01;09;11;06 - 01;09;28;04
Matthew
That's awesome. Family time. Yeah. with the family is is really important. And then pickleball now and then when we get out there. Yeah, yeah. It's good. Oh, really? And then movies were a big movie, people. So we go to the movies and watch movies all the time. Nice, nice. Oh that's great.

01;09;28;07 - 01;10;11;00
Darice
and just kind of wrapping up like, if you could think back, well, two things. I'll ask this first one, if after thinking of your experience, you know, your experiences coming into your college, and we never got to talk about how you came into Yale College, but, is there do you have, a piece of advice that you would give to new staff, coming into your college and just, you know, I know that for me, it was overwhelming because it was so much to learn and people and, you know, a lot of people in, a lot of acronyms, you know, just learning, you know, get it

01;10;11;00 - 01;10;22;12
Darice
getting an idea of just the whole, I call it the Yale ecosystem. And, do you have advice for for staff?

01;10;22;15 - 01;10;36;05
Matthew
Yeah. To start running. Yeah. Really? You know, like, as you said, the ecosystem is it never really it's going right. It's not slowing down. No, no. You know, it's just going to go at its pace and it's going to do what it does. And you have to.

01;10;36;05 - 01;10;36;28
Darice
Just kind of jump.

01;10;36;28 - 01;10;56;04
Matthew
In and jump in and go, yeah. And like you said, learning all the acronyms. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but that's you know you figure that stuff out. But I think it's the culture of everything moving fast and things happening. And what tradition and what people do all the time. Right. Yeah. Learning all that. And there's very, a lot of that.

01;10;56;04 - 01;11;14;05
Matthew
So I think one of the benefits for not the benefit, but like one of the benefits of the pandemic, I started the semester the fall before it is that when the pandemic, everything changed. Yeah, right. So instead of like, trying to figure out and do everything that everything did before me because that's what people expect, right? Everything changed.

01;11;14;05 - 01;11;35;04
Matthew
So to the point where now people forgot a little bit, we're here and now we can kind of retrain and start. Yeah. And so in some ways, some ways they did slow down. Right. Because they were forced to before. So yeah, help me. Right. Right. Exactly. But that first of all it was a lot. Yeah. Know. It was a lot of trying the figuring out and going all the ceremonies and divisions and yeah, trying to experience it all.

01;11;35;04 - 01;11;51;07
Matthew
Was it, it was a little bit overwhelming, but an epidemic slowed everything down and we had to recreate a little bit. And so that was helpful because now we could be a part of that. Right, right. Trying to figure out what was done before. Yeah.

01;11;51;07 - 01;12;08;19
Darice
Yeah. That's amazing. two more two more questions, I promise. first, when you think back to your earlier years, like your, your college years, is there any advice that you would have given your younger self?

01;12;08;22 - 01;12;26;15
Matthew
I see there's a study abroad. Yeah, yeah, I like, you know, I was going to, but again, it was quiet and not having come from a lot of money, I looked at the cost. Yeah, yeah. And I think sometimes that, that impacts people. Right. They see the cost. So even applying to college admissions. Oh yeah they start with like it's $50,000.

01;12;26;18 - 01;12;46;12
Matthew
Oh yeah. After you know, like I can't go on and study abroad. and then the second one, you know, again, going to the career center a little bit more thinking about that aspect, because again, the fun buyer, everyone you're going to get that. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's going and doing different things and you're going to find your brains and plenty of that.

01;12;46;15 - 01;13;06;16
Matthew
Yeah. So I think one thinking a little bit more thoroughly through the career center, and absence of that way. And then also, like I said, doing study abroad and having that, experience of going away because, again, I lived most of my life in Michigan and then I went off and I've since lived in like Colorado, Montana, Utah and Connecticut.

01;13;06;16 - 01;13;29;28
Matthew
Right, right, right. 14, 15 years, whatever it was. Okay. And so it's been great. And I've met different people and new people in moving, and got to see a lot of the different country or the, the states. And so that's been really cool too. So really figuring out how to navigate your family and your friends, but then also being open and meeting new friends in the right and understanding.

01;13;29;28 - 01;13;37;28
Matthew
That's the transition right there. Still your friends here, they don't go away. But like you still have new ones. Yeah, yeah. There's so many amazing people out there.

01;13;38;00 - 01;14;12;29
Darice
So, so, so yeah, this will be my final question. because, as you know, I'm part of the, the IB committee advisory committee for the Dean's office and in terms of our initiatives and, and vote what we'd like to work on, for this coming year. What what is your hope, for your college when it comes to, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging for, for, native students, native staff and, but also just just all students and staff.

01;14;13;02 - 01;14;34;08
Matthew
Oh, I go back to the visibility part again. I think the biggest message that again, I tell people and I tell, my supervisor and others is that with native and Indigenous people, you're not going to ever get the most for your money. So whatever that phrase is, right? Like I put X number of money and I expect like x number of results of people, right.

01;14;34;08 - 01;14;56;08
Matthew
Because we're a small community. So we can hold the program and it's going to be a smaller numbers. so my thing is, is you either, value indigenous and native thought, right? You have to value it and you have to believe in it. and you have to understand that you're gonna have to put in a lot in the I don't see the results are small because the results were amazing with the people.

01;14;56;08 - 01;15;01;22
Matthew
But the numbers wise, right? The numbers we started with an A numbers game, which you do.

01;15;01;28 - 01;15;03;02
Darice
You can't focus on the actual.

01;15;03;04 - 01;15;23;25
Matthew
We're not going to win. You're not it's not what you have. They're there and you have to see them and you have to believe in them and support them and have that visible. Right. So that it's just as important as any other. Right. Like, yeah. Perspective. Right. And so it's not valuing it based on numbers, but value based on that contribution of thought.

01;15;23;25 - 01;15;52;09
Matthew
And the people that are there. Right. It's still important. So I think that's the biggest thing other than the aid of indigenous again, which leads to visibility is because the numbers aren't quite there. Right. right. And you can look yeah, there's a variety of reasons for that. Right. Yeah. And then in terms of how that happened and, and looking at that historically right of but that that's what I say is, is that there's a rich culture, there's amazing people, amazing, talented.

01;15;52;11 - 01;16;04;01
Matthew
and to see them and devalue them even though there's not large numbers. Yeah. Right. And so I think thinking about that perspective is what I try to write to us. so.

01;16;04;03 - 01;16;27;04
Darice
Well, thank you so much, Matthew. I could definitely sit and talk with you all day today. but, you know, I really appreciate you just sharing more about yourself and, you know, your insights and experiences. with our with our listeners, yeah, I just, I, I loved hearing about, you know, just your dedication to what?

01;16;27;04 - 01;16;49;22
Darice
To what you do and, and, you know, supporting native and indigenous students, in higher education is really inspiring. So, you know, I'm sure that all of the students who, hopefully, will listen to this episode and I'm sure that they're really grateful, you know, for your impactful work, that that you do. So, again, just thank you so much for coming today.

01;16;49;22 - 01;17;24;19
Darice
And I'm, just happy to have a chance to get to know you more and, and, you know, and it's always interesting because I, in meetings that we've had, I know, you know, you can tell when someone's reserved or shy and and I was like, that was it would be great to have Matthew on because I, you know, I just wanted to get to know you more and, and, I think just doing this podcast and or even just conversations, the staff have, you know, amongst each other or with each other, it changes how we work together.

01;17;24;19 - 01;17;29;17
Darice
Right? So, you know, again, I just, appreciate your time. So thank you so much.

01;17;29;19 - 01;17;30;10
Matthew
Great. Thank you.

01;17;30;12 - 01;17;55;16
Darice
Yeah, absolutely. So, just to our listeners, I, you know, I hope, that you found today's episode, enlightening and informative and and just like Matthew, mentioned earlier, to not look at numbers. Right. The to understand, the actual, impacts that you're making with students in their lives, to not focus on, you know, pie charts basically.

01;17;55;16 - 01;18;18;19
Darice
Right. yeah. And, you know, again, I hope that you all stay tuned to listen to more conversations with, with all of our, fantastic guests and, and listening to their perspectives, and, their impact on the Yale College community. So, until then, thank you again, Matthew, for coming today. And, until next time, everyone.

01;18;18;19 - 01;18;24;20
Darice
Just please keep striving to, make positive changes in our in our community. So thank you.