Episode 03, Season 01 - Exploring Diversity, Inclusion, and Empowering Voices in Film: A Conversation with Yale College Film Advisor, Susan Youssef and Podcast Host Darice Corey

 

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:33:06
Darice
Welcome to our let's see, third episode of of Your College Voices and I'm Darice, in case anyone doesn't know, so welcome. Today I have Susan Yousseff, who is a writer, director and filmmaker. So I'd like to just read your bio, Susan, and and then we'll just have a conversation. So welcome today. So Susan was born in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, to a Lebanese father and Syrian mother.

00:00:33:08 - 00:01:18:20
Darice
She attended University of Virginia as undergrad and worked as a journalist in Beirut after college and returned to the States to go to UT Austin Film School. And prior to filmmaking, she was a teacher and also a  journalist in Beirut. So Susan is a writer-director of two dramatic features, a documentary, seven shorts, and these have all been official selections of film festivals such as Venice, Toronto International, Sundance, as well as programmed in museums including Tate Modern, New Museum-I'm tongue tied today-and Museum of Modern Art in New York.

00:01:18:22 - 00:01:46:18
Darice
Her work has won international recognition. Susan is also a Fulbright Fellow, Princess Grace Award winner, Yale University Poynter Fellow in Media and Journalism, and a 21st Century Fox director fellow. Susan has been a guest speaker at Harvard, Princeton, and many other institutions around the world. She has been commissioned by the Tate Modern, and her films have been curated at the New-

00:01:46:20 - 00:02:13:04
Darice
-I'm tongue tied-New Museum. I might have to edit that. And the Museum of Modern Art. She will be a visiting professor in film studies at Wesleyan in the fall, Wesleyan University in the fall, and is in development for her third feature. Three of Susan's films are currently featured on Netflix, which I did check out one of them last night, so you can watch them today-

00:02:13:06 - 00:02:42:05
Darice
So it's Maryoun and the Flying Headscarf, Habibi and Amsterdam to Anatolia. So Susan's first feature, Habibi, is a classic story like Romeo and Juliet, Susan worked on the film for eight years continuously and has said that she never fought for something so hard before, so I'd love to hear more about that story, and that the film defined her whole existence.

00:02:42:07 - 00:03:13:20
Darice
Susan has also led workshops here at Yale at CCAM, the Center for Collaborative Arts and Media here at Yale. Most recently one on directing actors for camera, which included an introduction to directing scenes for film and episodic and covered topics such as prepping for shooting a scene, reviewing floor plans, blocks and shot lists, and then directing the scene with actors using those prep components.

00:03:13:21 - 00:03:47:16
Darice
So Susan, it's such a pleasure. And just like I told you on the way in here, I want your autograph. So, yeah, congratulation on all of your hard work over the years. And so I'm wondering, you know, it's hard to believe it's the first time we've had a chance to meet, but I'd love to hear more about your background and, you know, if, anything you'd like to share about how you grew up and what led you into going from teaching into filmmaking.

00:03:47:18 - 00:04:21:00
Susan
Sure. Thank you for the lovely intro. I only have one adjustment, which is I taught at Wesleyan.

Darice
Oh, I'm so sorry.

Susan
It's okay. It's the research, online, right? I taught at Wesleyan from fall 2020. So during COVID until July 2022.

Darice
Oh, got it, so it's past tense.

Susan
I taught film production courses, so-and screenwriting and so-But back back to your question about filmmaking.

00:04:21:02 - 00:04:49:12
Susan
I'm a first generation filmmaker so it's really interesting that we had the last all-staff meeting with Dean Pericles and he was talking about that 50-if I correctly remember, 59% of the students that are coming in are first generation, low income. So I was amazed. And the fact that they're-Yale is really actively looking and I found that to be very profound.

00:04:49:14 - 00:05:16:02
Susan
And I had not thought about what it would be like now to go try to go to a school like Yale. So I just you know, I grew up, I was born in Brooklyn. As we talked about, I went to high school in Staten Island. And I just remember I got this scholarship to study at Cooper Union.

00:05:16:04 - 00:05:43:00
Susan
I don't know if you know what it-it's in the East Village. It's a design and art, a design engineering, art school. And they, for free, funded my time to study for three semesters, art. And that included all supplies. So I would be, you know, at this Catholic high school in Staten Island and then on weekends and in the summer at Cooper Union.

00:05:43:02 - 00:06:07:12
Susan
And it was something I had to do, like all of New York City, there was like a competition to do it, to get in. So I had to show a whole portfolio. I got in. And then when I got to Cooper Union, I found I'm a terrible, I'm terrible at drawing, I'm terrible at sculpting, really bad, I'm talking, and I remember just asking, like, trying to find the people that had reviewed my portfolio and let me in to be like, why?

00:06:07:12 - 00:06:52:11
Susan
I know everybody across New York City competed for this. There was only 14 of us. So how was I selected? I can't draw and I'm not good at sculpting. And they said there was something about what you showed that shows a vision and there are all kinds of artists. So I knew, like, in that time, obviously, if I was doing that from like 15 and 16 for three semesters, like I knew that I wanted to be an artist, but I did not know how to put together the reality of being the first person in my family to try to go to college.

00:06:52:13 - 00:07:14:19
Susan
With my parents having very different lives, they really had to work even as children, you know, and they were immigrants. So, which is a common story, very common story, immigrants, very common story that you're the first person in your family to go to college. But how do you become an artist, then, when your whole existence is about creating security for your family?

00:07:14:20 - 00:07:29:20
Susan
And I didn't have an answer. I didn't know how to do it. And my guidance counselor, his last name was Harrison, I'm forgetting his first name, but got, you know may he rest in peace, He said to me, "What do you want to do?" And I said, "I want to travel all around the world and I want to be an artist."

00:07:29:22 - 00:07:56:00
Susan
And he said, "So you're going to marry Rich?" And he also told me there was a couple of things going against me. One, like, I couldn't figure out how to put that reality either. But also, he also looked at my standardized testing and he was like, your standardized testing is extremely high. You're in the 99th percentile, but on your IQ test, my IQ test was 106 or something, which is extraordinarily low.

00:07:56:00 - 00:08:12:15
Susan
And he's like, I want you to know. And I was like, why are you telling me that, like, my IQ is so low, but my standardized testing is so high and he said well I just want you to know that that you're operating differently. So at the same time, he was telling me, like, I don't know how you're going to be an artist-

00:08:12:17 - 00:08:30:09
Susan
He's also telling me you're operating very well, but very differently. I knew that about-so what do you do with that info? So I didn't know what to do, so I just-I got into UVa, which was the cheapest school, the furthest away from my parents, the cheapest and the best. So that's where I went.

00:08:30:09 - 00:08:39:19
Susan
And then I cried every day the first semester.

Darice
Really?

Susan
Yeah, because I was coming from New York City.

00:08:39:21 - 00:08:59:02
Susan
I just-It's a it's a school-At the time, it was like 70% Greek, you know, the frat system. And I didn't know what to do-was nestled in the mountains. And I couldn't figure out this vision to be an artist. And I'm telling this, like, young story just because Yale is, you know, we're talking about the student population.

00:08:59:05 - 00:09:19:04
Susan
I didn't know how to do it, so I did-I don't know if I would tell students to do this-but I did something crazy, which is that I really delayed deciding on what to do with what I had. So my guidance counselor at UVA the first semester was like, you should go to film school,

00:09:19:06 - 00:09:43:18
Susan
you shouldn't be here, this is not the right place. So I applied to Tisch for screenwriting the first semester I got in as a transfer. And I couldn't go. I was just like, It's too expensive, I don't want to live with my parents. So I stayed at UVA, which I ended up loving, and what happened at UVA-and I'm trying to think of, like, what would help with Yale students-is that it evolved to my character.

00:09:43:20 - 00:10:11:03
Susan
And than I got to study liberal arts and I didn't develop film skills, but I studied Arabic as a classical language, I met students from all over the world, and I met people from different backgrounds who were traveling the world. And so from there, I saw all my friends that were doing kind of similar things as me getting teaching fellowships abroad.

00:10:11:05 - 00:10:46:01
Susan
So I applied for a Fulbright to Syria, and I also applied for a teaching fellowship in Beirut. And my-when the offer came in for Syria, my mom was like, there's no way, because Syria is very complicated with it's political history and she was convinced with my big mouth I'd get in trouble, probably, right. So I took the teaching fellowship to Beirut, but still avoiding the fact that I was an artist and not knowing how to be an artist, not knowing like, I did not solve the problem-this problem did not get solved.

00:10:46:01 - 00:11:03:17
Susan
And this problem of screenwriting and not knowing didn't-still did not get solved. I just moved the problem to a whole other country. And I was extremely ignorant. I had never been to the Middle East except for like my parents took me when I was two as a baby to meet my grandparents. So I had no concept.

00:11:03:20 - 00:11:28:22
Susan
And I got to Lebanon, and my family members came to meet me at the airport, and I understood the Arabic and I opened my mouth and I couldn't speak Arabic back. So I had gotten-even though I studied classical Arabic, I did not have the-I had so much division from who I was as an Arab-American that I stopped speaking Arabic back to my family.

00:11:29:00 - 00:12:00:11
Susan
So that was the beginning of beginning to identify as a-with Arabic language identity. And that's where film came together, so that, the first week in Beirut, I saw signs for the Beirut National Film Festival. I did a cold call. A young woman picked up the phone and she said, sure, you can volunteer here. So I was a teaching fellow during the day, and then I volunteered at the film festival at night.

00:12:00:13 - 00:12:31:10
Susan
And I met Isabelle Huppert, the great French actress, like the first week they sent me to the airport to meet her. And that began the chaos, which is the film obsession. Like all of a sudden, I kept delaying the thing, and then it was like, in front of me, and I became one of the first I am of the first generation of women directors out of women directors.

00:12:31:12 - 00:12:53:14
Susan
I'm at the lower, you know, the newer edge of it. But still, the women ahead of me were not more than maybe ten years older than me. So it was like a new movement and trying to figure out how that works as an American, how that works in cinema. And so after two years in Beirut, I went to film school because I had no education in it.

00:12:53:15 - 00:13:16:10
Susan
And I went to UT-running theme-because it was public and it was cheap and the best-running theme. And then, you know, things moved from there. But it was very. But that means it was very long. Like, it was a very long, from, like, starting to make art seriously at 15 or 16 to actually going to film school at 24.

00:13:16:11 - 00:13:56:02
Susan
That's very long to avoid, like picking a path-that's eight years.

Darice
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's long, but that, you know, that was your journey, right? Like, like maybe others have a sort of quicker path to getting to where you are, but I like to look at it-So. So and the reason I say this is because when I started college, I started out as undergrad and then my family had some life changes and I had to work, you know, I had to get a full time job instead of going full time to school.

00:13:56:04 - 00:14:21:14
Darice
So I went part time at night and it took me longer. And-but I like to look at it as it's, you know, it sees in me because I had working experience by the time I finished school, but it took me longer to finish school. That wasn't my preference. But at the same time, I you know, I got some experience and I like to call it some seasoning and, uh, yeah.

00:14:21:14 - 00:14:51:05
Darice
So it's not necessarily a bad thing. I think that, but we always want things to happen, you know, quicker?

Susan
Fast-

Darice
Right. We want to go from A to B, you know, within a few years and be ready and, and you know, it doesn't-you know, it doesn't work that way, but. But that's great. Really interesting. Um, so, I mean, and to be honest, it's, to me from this perspective, it's like an incredible journey, right?

00:14:51:05 - 00:15:25:05
Darice
Because you, you went from, um, like you said, the art classes and then you just decided to go to a whole different country, which I can imagine must have been-Was that difficult for you to transition to, you know, doing the fellowship and then also volunteering? Did you feel, you know, did it take a while to just become comfortable in that capacity or-what was that like?

00:15:25:07 - 00:15:42:02
Susan
Well, I always I meet a lot of parents-'cause now we're the age of parents, right- And they told me, like they are so proud, their kids are going straight from this amazing institution. Where I'm sure a lot of people have debt, so they have to get a job. And they got a job.

00:15:42:02 - 00:16:09:03
Susan
And I say, what about traveling? And they're like, Oh, we traveled with them already. And my heart just breaks because I'm like, once you get on the hamster wheel of working, it's that period where you can get out and just study doesn't exist. And there were two times where I took breaks to take fellowships, and one was that fellowship in Beirut and the other one was after UT I had-

00:16:09:03 - 00:16:42:19
Susan
I actually then took the Fulbright but to the Netherlands-was Islamic Civilization initiative and I could pick a country and for reasons we can get into later, I picked the Netherlands and both experiences were completely groundbreaking, earth shattering. Totally-You know, then, you know, after all that happened-catapulted me to another dimension. Different person. Yeah. Like, and even though they were each like ten month long programs, which is really short, like, you and I are going to blink and we'll be in June and we'll be like, Oh, that was ten months.

00:16:42:20 - 00:17:13:20
Susan
And so it goes really fast. And I think that especially as Americans to understand my place in the world and I think because again, to place myself in time, growing up, there was no social media and we were-even now there are not that many Arab-American directors, especially prominent ones-they're growing. They're growing, more Muslim-American directors who are prominent, growing, but still very small.

00:17:13:21 - 00:17:33:20
Unknown
But younger, look, I didn't know growing up that Callie Khouri, who wrote Thelma and Louise is Lebanese-American.

Darice
Oh, wow. I didn't know that either.

Susan
That was like when I was-I mean, again, it was like 1990 or 91. But she was in my world. But I didn't know she was Lebanese-American at it, She was a screenwriter.

00:17:33:20 - 00:18:09:22
Susan
She won an Oscar before I went to college. Like I had no concept that this thing was something someone like me was doing. And so I was living in this world where, like, I was completely absent and invisible... completely and just no one looked like me on screen. And just a void and I also had did not understand anything about Palestine, Lebanon's history, nothing.

00:18:09:22 - 00:18:37:06
Susan
I just knew I had received a very, very strong amount of education around Israel. But the education I received was very compassionate towards Israel. And I did not understand the rest of the region, which was like my actual lineage. And I think I needed to leave the country to actually understand it. I don't know how much anymore, because now we have social media and things are kind of catching up.

00:18:37:07 - 00:18:56:05
Susan
But I still think, like, for any young person to get, they have fellowships, teaching fellowships all over the world. You don't. I understand. We have student loans. You have to get out to work. But these things pay. It's not free. You're not backpacking through Europe. You're going someplace to work, and you could do it in South Korea,

00:18:56:06 - 00:19:17:07
Susan
You could do it, you know, You could just pick a location. Mm hmm. And it shifts something and grows another thing. And, yeah, I'll never-I need-I think I was very immature. I didn't, I needed it. I was so, I was a spoiled. I mean, you know, my privilege may not be compared to what people consider privilege.

00:19:17:07 - 00:19:36:03
Susan
It's still privilege. Like, I went to college. I didn't have to work. I mean, I did do that in grad school, but, like, I didn't have to work full time, you know? Still privileged. So even those first generation was still privileged, but I got to go. And I needed to leave the country and especially figure out-I didn't know-

00:19:36:05 - 00:19:59:22
Susan
We don't get an-We still don't get an education about the history of the Middle East in school. We don't get that. So there was just a big gap in understanding Arab and Muslim culture. Right. And I needed to close it. And also heal things that were underneath that I didn't understand were happening in terms of my identity and my self-worth.

00:20:00:00 - 00:20:23:23
Susan
Like, why? Why did it take so many years?

Darice
Yeah. Yeah. Wow, That's amazing. And and so a couple of things I want to touch on just based on what you just shared. One is that you mentioned seeing people like you in the field. And I was curious about how do you think that's changing?

00:20:24:04 - 00:21:06:05
Darice
Because it's like you said, there are very few right now. What do you think-You know, how do you contribute to changing this so that we see more people of the same background in the industry also-Excuse me-And also how do you carry that message to to the students, like in terms of your mentorship, in telling stories and like you said, it sounds like you've completely immersed yourself so that you could learn all of these things and-

00:21:06:07 - 00:21:12:05
Darice
Yeah, I just wanted to hear from you about what that meant to you.

00:21:12:05 - 00:21:39:01
Susan
My bigger concern is always for women or people non-binary. Because I still feel, especially what I've witnessed, is that things will still, even with men of color, I still see power dynamics will always go in their favor over women of color or non-binary people of color. And I think that that is a conversation that we need to keep having.

00:21:41:13 - 00:22:07:03
Susan
It's really important. And I-I've seen it, and it's, I know that there's an awareness, but I think we have to-we have to really protect each other. And so when students come to me, I always give them the best resources I have, like, the best information. I don't hold back. I just say, like, this is this thing, and their eyes will-

00:22:07:04 - 00:22:26:12
Susan
So, like, one thing, I'll say it out loud is, like, I didn't know this when I was in film school, but the Academy has its-It's online-There is a list of film festivals that if you get into-short film festivals-That if you get into and you win an award, you qualify for an Oscar, for an Oscar as a short filmmaker.

00:22:26:14 - 00:22:53:23
Susan
I didn't know that. So, like, I showed my work. And I didn't keep applying, I didn't try to Oscar qualify. My first feature Oscar qualified and I didn't submit. The second one Oscar qualified and I ran to just make sure in the Academy's screening room to shift the energy, to shift the ability to do it. And as an act of solidarity with my community and different behavior and being like, we're in the Academy screening room, people are going to watch it.

00:22:54:05 - 00:23:19:23
Susan
Maybe not, but I hope they did. And that kind of, like, that kind of resource, giving that resource to people so they know it right away. And the-It starts working-That was not done for me. And I think it's those small meetings when people, because I'm the film advisor, like when they come to me, those small meetings are when I could just drop something small, and you-then that's it.

00:23:19:23 - 00:23:39:07
Susan
I want to say it, go and run.

Darice
Yeah, run with it.

Susan
And that's, I think those little things, that sharing of information is what also will help make the gap smaller so that they'll do much more. In the 20 years I'll be making films will do way more than me because they have the information.

00:23:39:07 - 00:24:28:23
Darice
That's amazing. And you brought up a topic that came up when I spoke with Daisy the other day on the podcast, and actually my guest yesterday, same thing, is now that you have this knowledge and you went, you've gone through the process and there were things that you weren't aware of that you could have qualified for and sort of, you know, like missed opportunities basically, and our duty now or after you've gone through this learning process and probably still going through, you know, a learning process, but our responsibility to students or our peers is to like, share our experience and hope that, like you said, that you take that experience and run with

00:24:28:23 - 00:24:57:18
Darice
it because now you have this piece of knowledge that I had to work really hard to figure out. But now I have it and I'm sharing it with with you so that you can do even more. And that's what's amazing about it. Daisy and I were talking about just when we both went to college. We-that wasn't there, you know, we didn't have, uh, students around us that looked like us, and then we didn't have instructors that looked like us.

00:24:57:19 - 00:25:20:18
Darice
And for me, I became very introverted. So I was so introverted that I, you know, I was quiet and I didn't really know who to talk to or who to ask about, you know, certain things. And yeah, I missed things that I probably could have done or, you know, internships or whatever the case may, you know, whatever the case may be.

00:25:20:20 - 00:25:43:01
Darice
And yeah, and then I find out later I had no idea because I didn't talk to the right people. And so, yes, it's really powerful to hear, like now that you've gone through this experience that you're able to share it all with students and hope that they take it and run with it. And like you said, they get to do more.

00:25:43:01 - 00:26:08:16
Darice
It's almost like, you know, we're both parents and we want our kids to do more than when we had the chance to do. And that's awesome. I wanted to hear a little bit more about, you mentioned your experience as a woman in the film industry and the power dynamic. What were some of the challenges that that you faced when it came to that?

00:26:08:17 - 00:26:41:01
Darice
Like, was it, you know, getting, I don't know, funding or, you know, what what were some of the things or obstacles that you came across?

Susan
Oh, my God. It was like everything. I'm going to-I'm going to try to answer it in a way that helps Yale students rather than like laments-just lamenting. A friend at one point, bringing up the point, I remember I was, I think I was like in my thirties and a friend turned to me and she said, You're not asking the right questions.

00:26:41:03 - 00:27:00:17
Susan
Okay? So you're not talking to the right people, so you're not asking the right questions. And so you're not getting the information. So I remember when I went to Sundance my first time, with a short, was in my twenties. And there are so few, like, people I knew that had gone to Sundance. I knew, like, two people who were directors.

00:27:00:19 - 00:27:19:03
Susan
And when I got there, there was a a young man and he was having all these meetings, and I was like, What are these meetings? And he was like, What meetings do you have? And I didn't know. I didn't know that you go to Sundance to get reps. I didn't know you can go and get, like, an agent or a manager.

00:27:19:05 - 00:27:41:02
Susan
I was so in, like, the microcosm of having come from Austin, making indie films that I just was, like, trying to meet other directors that I thought were amazing. Like Isaac Julien. I met him. Because he had, like, I think he had something at Sundance, and, like, we both had the same distributor for one of our pieces, so I went to meet him.

Darice
Oh, that's so cool.

00:27:41:05 - 00:28:00:15
Susan
So that was like my list. I was just meeting the other creatives. I was not-And it's because I didn't know that's what you do at Sundance.

Darice
Right, or that you could do it.

Susan
You could do it, yeah, but there are two ways to look at it. One way other women of color have told me, women again, who are maybe ten or 15 years older than me.

00:28:00:17 - 00:28:19:10
Susan
There are not that many, but the ones who are there, right, have said to me, Stop blaming yourself, they weren't looking for you. I was like, yeah but I didn't look for them either. They're like, No, no, no, other people, just were there with their short and things happen to them. You were there, and I had a short the next year as well.

00:28:19:15 - 00:28:41:00
Susan
So I didn't have just one. It was like two years consecutively. And so I think it's really when I look back at it, there's two stories. The story of I didn't ask enough questions. I didn't know what to get. Because I didn't feel entitled to any of it. That's on me.

00:28:41:02 - 00:28:59:02
Susan
That's not on them. That's on me. I didn't feel privileged enough to ask that I deserved anything. I was lucky to get what I got. It was a miracle that I got it.  And then the second part, though, is what isn't your fault because nobody was looking for you.

00:28:59:13 - 00:29:23:01
Susan
So I think the big-if I look back at, like, what was the biggest thing stopping me? Okay, Of course having to do everything and being the first of a generation of people doing it. Not knowing anyone like you're doing it, that stuff. Okay, But the biggest problem is the entitlement to get what you need for your work.

00:29:23:03 - 00:29:48:20
Susan
And the stupidity of not realizing that when you are short circuiting yourself, you're not short circuiting you. You're short circuiting everybody around you that you can bring up with you. So it's not selfish to get paid. It's not selfish to get the right reps. It's not selfish to protect your work. It's not, you're doing this-

00:29:48:20 - 00:29:52:18
Susan
to make more work, so you can keep bringing people up with you.

00:29:52:18 - 00:30:29:15
Darice
Right, wow. That's really powerful. And you brought up something that resonates with with me. And I'm sure lots of people when, like you said, feeling entitled and knowing what your worth is, but demanding, you know, literally demanding that respect that, you know, whatever it is, whether it's the respect, the recognition or the compensation or, you know, the resources that you need.

00:30:29:17 - 00:31:13:11
Darice
Now, that was really powerful because, like you said, you all sat in similar workshops or, you know, came up together. But every-you know, people take the tools they receive. They they take the tools and do things, you know, do it their way or do things differently and figure it, figure it out. So I'm wondering if you could tell me, you know, since you had that feeling of, you know, that, you know, I don't want to call it entitlement, but, where like, I don't know if you, if you mean that you didn't push hard enough.

00:31:13:13 - 00:32:13:14
Darice
And if that's the case what, what would you recommend to, you know, students who are coming into this field now or especially like you said, women or, who are looking to get into the film industry and they're not sure because like you said, there is a power dynamic and there are so few female directors or so, what like, what would you recommend to, to kind of get, get past that, to really get past that feeling of, you know, not being uncomfortable with with making those, you know, making those demands or, you know, demanding that respect or, you know, the compensation or whatever the case may be.

00:32:13:16 - 00:32:41:18
Susan
Well, I think the few women that I know that have done really, really well come from very privileged backgrounds. So come from, you know, were able to study at UV-like universities, there were Ivy Leagues, but whose parents had a lot of money. So they had a lot of padding. There was a lot of room to make mistakes or a lot of people to ask for money from, to get investment.

00:32:41:19 - 00:32:58:01
Susan
There was a lot of support. So you didn't have to do a lot of other jobs while they were trying to make a film. So I think, first of all, we have to give ourselves permission to understand that, like, if we don't come from a lot of money. Or if we have student loans.

00:32:58:01 - 00:33:21:12
Susan
I still have my grad school student loans. If we have student loans, that this is a real thing that, like, there's a financial thing happening. That it is a responsibility that we are. That we're dealing with that like somebody. And I'm not going to out the really powerful women filmmakers. But there are the women, powerful filmmakers that I am aware of.

00:33:21:12 - 00:33:42:23
Susan
A lot of them come from means. And I think one thing is to educate yourself and go look-Look up the most, your favorite woman filmmaker. Figure out what their background is. They-I promise you, most of them come from means. And I think that not as a thing to stop you, but as a thing to be like,

00:33:42:23 - 00:34:04:10
Susan
Okay, I already have a thing that's difficult. And then the other thing of, like, having children. So there is a big gap between my second feature and now the third, because I have a child with special needs, and that means the momentum slowed down. So I think the first thing is.

00:34:04:12 - 00:34:26:01
Susan
Okay, looking money, looking at fertility. Also, you know, even not having children, you are having a whole lot of stuff happening biologically that's very serious. A lot of women do. And what does that mean? So you already have two things happening-

Daarice
Making it more challenging, right.  

Susan
-that are challenging. And then give grace for that. Okay. That.

00:34:26:01 - 00:34:53:08
Susan
Okay. Let's put that aside. That's insane. That's hard. What am I going to do? And then the third part, I really think, is how much do you want it? And I am possessed. I am woken up. I am not lying, I wish I could lie to you at one, two, or three o'clock every single night by the ambitions for the films, for the next ones.

00:34:53:10 - 00:35:20:14
Susan
And there are three that are, like, sitting. And I finally purged the third feature script out of my body. The other two, I'm like, okay, keep moving. You have, you know, pitches, treatments. Move them to next steps. Keep the wheel. And to the point that it's like, uh, how do I say this, to understand that my self-worth-

00:35:20:16 - 00:35:29:12
Susan
-Because I don't come from an entitled background, because no one was looking for me,

00:35:29:14 - 00:35:55:19
Susan
That the actual confidence comes from doing it. And then watching it become real. And. But that means that you actually have to do it. And you have to do it even though you're broke. And I think I told talk on the car here, like I totaled my car. And I spent the rest of grad school on a bicycle because I used the money from the car to pay for my short.

00:35:55:21 - 00:36:15:18
Susan
That was the one that went to Sundance. So. But in other words, by any means necessary. But I-I don't-At the same time, I am not saying go bury yourself-even though I've done it-in credit card debt. I'm saying, like, learn how to keep spreadsheets. Learn how to count your money. Learn-

00:36:15:20 - 00:36:40:01
Susan
What does a budget look like? What are the numbers to make that thing? And make it your vertical mission to make it. If it takes you ten years. To make a feature, it takes you ten years. Habibi I wrote in treatment for 2003. We didn't shoot it until December 2009. Six years! And it just took me that long.

00:36:40:02 - 00:37:01:04
Susan
So even though I had shorts at Sundance and all that stuff, it just took that long. So I think that that's the only thing I can say is to actually, like, be aware of the difficulties. Write down what you-write it down, what you need. And then say, okay, I don't know if I deserve it.

00:37:01:06 - 00:37:29:04
Susan
Maybe I don't feel I deserve it, but I'm gonna just do the actions. Until the thing becomes real. And then I promise you, it becomes real.

Darice
Yeah, That's really powerful. You know, again, going back to that, that feeling of I don't deserve it. And it's like, you know, even when I started off with you and I said, I feel like I need your autograph, and it's like, yeah, heck yeah.

00:37:29:04 - 00:37:58:16
Darice
You know, like all the the stuff that you've done is amazing. Like, you know, your accomplishments are-they're amazing and no matter how long they took you, you know, that part, you know what I mean? Like, that part doesn't matter. And like you said that I feel like that's your journey, whether it took two years, whether it took, you know, ten years, that was your journey, it makes you, you know, who you are and it makes you special.

00:37:58:18 - 00:38:30:11
Darice
And I love that, you know, with what you just said in terms of sharing that knowledge, you may have this vision for a film, but all of the other little details that folks don't even know that you may have to figure out, like like you said, spreadsheet, you know, organizing all this stuff, organizing your thoughts and keeping track of, you know, spending and all of those things.

00:38:30:13 - 00:38:52:01
Darice
So that's really powerful. And I, you know, again, I'm just like, that is really amazing, you know, I'm, I'm like a new fan.

Susan
Thank you. It doesn't, it doesn't feel like that. It feels to me because I've met because I've witnessed Barry Jenkins, but he's not the only one I've witnessed. Dee Rees I was in a lab with her.

00:38:52:02 - 00:39:19:21
Susan
Like, I, you know, and I could keep going. Because I've witnessed them. I don't-I feel what I've done is minimal. And that I should do better. And that-But I've been told-what I've been told-I guess it's like when you get to Yale like the, I'm-

00:39:19:21 - 00:39:38:15
Susan
trying to imagine what it's like for the students. They've arrived. But then you're at Yale. And then I'm sure your colleagues at Yale are doing crazy stuff. Like crazy good. And then you're like, Oh, God.

Darice
Like, where? What have I. What have I done?

Susan
You know, like, I got here, Like, they're going to blah blah when they graduate.

00:39:38:16 - 00:39:58:17
Susan
I think it's kind of like that. And because what I look like, one thing I did, I think I did it, like, ten years ago. One day, I decided to look up Soderbergh's IMDB. And I was just like, oh my God, I can't imagine having made this many films in this many years.

00:39:58:18 - 00:40:21:17
Susan
And really good films. Not just one amazing film and the rest-because some directors, like, you could see it's like, wavy, you know. And I think, like, what I had to tell myself was, like, there's, the way the world that you're operating in. It's not the same once you're in the machine, things move differently.

00:40:21:20 - 00:40:45:07
Susan
And that the timeline is your timeline. And I think that's like, I have to be aware enough to compete for myself. But I also have to tell myself that there is, that it doesn't really end. That you can keep going. And so I looked at like, you know, big person that people have told me look at is Terrence Malick.

00:40:45:09 - 00:41:10:01
Susan
Terrence Malick's had enormous gaps between his features. So I just kind of like, just say, like, all right, I know what, now I'm old enough to be like, now you know what's possible. It's not like before, you didn't know. Now you know. So can I do it? But also, I think.

00:41:10:01 - 00:41:36:05
Susan
It's also for Yalies and everybody else. Sometimes you're dealt a hand. And what are you going to do? Your parents, you have a sick parent or you have a disability or something else beyond gender and privilege, right? And what are you going to do? So I'm just like, okay, I know I'm obsessed with being creative.

00:41:36:07 - 00:41:53:01
Susan
I want to do better than I've done. I want to do better because I want that for my self confidence. And I want that to be of service. I really want to be of service. I really want to be proud of what I did for my community. So how do I show up?

00:41:53:01 - 00:42:12:06
Susan
And then can I accept if I fail? Because, like, maybe Darice, maybe in a year I still haven't made my third feature. Maybe in two years I still haven't made my third feature. Maybe three years I still haven't made my third feature. Like, what am I going to do? You know, I'm going to just be like, Oh, I was really proud because every single day I took the steps.

00:42:12:09 - 00:42:35:07
Susan
So I do an exercise now every morning. So I've been, I've been meditating for a very long time. I'm a  meditator. And right, before, I was just like, okay, just meditation to get calm. And now it's like after meditation, I do one more stop, which is I write down for myself the list. These are necessary, because I'm a mom, and-

00:42:35:07 - 00:42:56:22
Susan
and I have work. The things I have to do. Yes. And then the things I want to do as a creative. And those things they may not-I might write down this thing-Watch that one movie again, there's a storyline you need to look at. There's like, a thing. There's a movie I need to look at because it's a storyline.

00:42:57:00 - 00:43:11:11
Susan
I think I need to look at to help me figure out something that I think is not that strong in my new script. It's-I wrote that two days ago. I still haven't done it. But it's something I wrote down, and then I know because I wrote it that I'm going to come back and visit it.

00:43:11:14 - 00:43:34:05
Susan
So I think the process now is of, like, writing down as many things that I need to do. So that it's a map. And then. Oh. And then telling other people.

Darice
Right. Right. Yeah. And you brought up. I mean, and I know lots of moms, or who are parents who go through the same thing.

00:43:34:05 - 00:43:54:21
Darice
It's like once, you know, once you have kids that they take over.

Susan
That's it.

Darice
They take over your life. And then it becomes this like juggling act of you have to work, you know, you have to provide somehow. And then there is this stuff that you would love to be able to have time to to do or accomplish.

00:43:54:23 - 00:44:16:04
Darice
And, you know, I, same thing, I used to kind of beat myself up about it because it was like, okay, there are all these things I can't do because I'm trying. I'm also trying to be a good mom. You know?

Susan
That's huge.

Darice
And that's pretty good, too. You know, I'm like, that's that's a good thing, right? I want to be a good mom.

00:44:16:04 - 00:44:44:08
Darice
I want to be a good parent. And you know, that juggling act of trying to figure out, well, when, I'll still be a good mom, but I still want to do this, this other stuff. So how do I how do I do that? And so what I'm getting back to is that you brought up a couple points, almost like it's-I don't want to call it like an imposter syndrome, but it's it in some ways it is.

00:44:44:08 - 00:45:20:22
Darice
It's like, oh, I, you know, like, am I good enough or did I do enough to get this accolade or, you know, I'm watching people around me achieve whatever, you know, whatever you consider as success. And I'm not there yet. And so now, you know, and this is just my own story, I used to feel that way, especially, you know, once I had kids and things, you know, my career sort of derailed for a little while.

00:45:20:23 - 00:45:55:11
Darice
And then it was like, okay, I'm trying to reel it back in. How do I really back in and be able to do the things that I still love, but be a good mom? So I guess what I'm getting at is, you know, you mentioned some of the things that you do to try to, you know, stay grounded and not beat yourself up about not doing, you know, not looking, you know, the grass is greener on the other side or, you know, how all these people are doing all of these things.

00:45:55:13 - 00:46:31:18
Darice
So I guess what I'm wondering is your-going forward, how do you see yourself planning out or if you have time, like you said, you try to write down everything that you're doing, but how do you give yourself some credit for for what you've accomplished so far? And like you said, you know, you write out what like a map of what you plan to do.

00:46:31:20 - 00:46:59:00
Darice
So how do you reward yourself in that?

Susan
Oh, wow. Well, I think like one of the things, you know, we, as film advisor, we get PTO days. And what I did was I said, okay, like the PTO days are for creative work. So I'm not spending that to go to, go on vacation. So we did like I think we did one night at Cape Cod.

00:46:59:00 - 00:47:17:04
Susan
You know, and the other days are being used for creative writing. And then I can tell myself it's guilt free. Because it's like, well, you're getting paid for it, you're getting paid that day that you're writing. So you're not taking time away from something else that you need to do for your family.

00:47:17:06 - 00:47:35:14
Susan
You're literally getting paid right now to write this. And that's like a just a quick trick. To trick yourself because it's, because of writing and then directing. It's like, that's my favorite thing in the whole world. I mean, I love. I really love being with my daughter. So, like, my daughter.

00:47:35:14 - 00:47:53:13
Susan
And then, I mean, my poor husband. But so, like, let's say family, put together. Like, okay, they're important. They're sacred. And I'm very aware that she's very small for a very short period. And I think that's another thing for all creators. It's a very small period that we're here and a very small period that we can move our bodies.

00:47:53:15 - 00:48:13:00
Susan
We have a lot of time in old age now these days, and we don't know what kind of old age we're going to have. So to really be like, okay, I'm going to use my time to live and enjoy my time. But I also am so obsessed with actually making films. How?

00:48:13:02 - 00:48:18:03
Susan
And just that PTO day is a great trick.

00:48:18:03 - 00:48:36:13
Susan
And so the other thing I did was, besides the PTO days, it was a short term trick. But also gamble on myself. It's Professor Charlie Musser, he told me directors are gamblers. He said professors are disciplined. And he. When he told me I'm a gambler, it all, it was like, you know, the Matrix.

00:48:36:15 - 00:49:01:22
Darice
Yeah. Yeah. You start seeing the numbers.

Susan
I was like that's it, that's what's happening. So, like, that's like. I guess like, I am gambling. I'm gambling with my life. And I guess to make myself feel better because in the end, like, I know, you know, I have an MFA, I can be a professor and I like it. I like it.

00:49:01:22 - 00:49:19:12
Susan
Like when we do the workshops, I'm really happy to do them. I did-I just did one with Charlie. I did a documentary one, so we made docs. I love it. It's not that I don't love it. I love it. It's just I need, to become a professor really well, it takes time. And I still did not get to what I think is the level of filmmaker.

00:49:19:12 - 00:49:39:17
Susan
So as a filmmaker, there's something called, I remember there's a film programmer who passed away, his name is Jiseok Kim. He's from Korea, and he founded the Busan International Film Festival, which is like the Cannes of Asia. That's the comparison. And I would hear him talking about colleagues films like that is his-he became a master with that film.

00:49:39:22 - 00:50:09:19
Susan
And I know, my dream is to make the film where I've mastered. Where it's like she's. She's the masterwork. And I'm such a dork, like, laughing about it. Like that creative act. And to me, the congratulation is that I am taking that gamble. And if I fail, I've just told myself I'm not going to fail.

00:50:09:21 - 00:50:33:00
Susan
What can I tell you? I told myself you're not going to fail.

Darice
Yeah. You have to, right. Because if you, if you look at it as, Oh, it's not going to go well, you know what I mean? Like, if you, any piece of work, if you look at it as, oh, it's just not going to be good, but I'm just doing it and then, you know, it's almost like you're you're holding yourself back, right.

00:50:33:02 - 00:50:47:08
Susan
And I could do it-I don't mean to interrupt you, but I could do it micro. Like, let's say I want to make the master work, but I never get the studio support. I never get the reps, I never get the millions. You could still make a master work on the budgets I've had. And I know how to do that.

00:50:47:09 - 00:51:10:22
Susan
So I've just been like, now I think what I am missing is the, the deadline. I haven't put a deadline on myself. Okay. Which I think if we were thinking about our students, yeah, we'd be, like, put a deadline, put a deadline.

Darice
Yeah, in some ways. Or at least goal. Like, make a goal. Like, by-

00:51:11:00 - 00:51:36:01
Darice
And this is just from my perspective, because I don't know a ton about filmmaking, so but at least for me, I try to establish like, okay, by this date I want to be doing X, Y, Z, or I want to try to fit like even, even with this podcast, I, this came up in discussion and it kind of grew.

00:51:36:01 - 00:52:01:19
Darice
We initially, we wanted some content for our Yale college site and then the idea just kept going and then you know we got some funding for the podcast. So I looked at trying to buy equipment and, and do all these, you know, fancy equipment and set it up myself. And I'm like, I don't know about this. You know, I'm a techie, but it was taking me too long to try to figure it all out.

00:52:01:19 - 00:52:24:14
Darice
And then that's when I came down to the studio here. And but in my mind, I kind of I really wanted to be able to have at least a few sessions recorded by the fall. And, you know, I tried a couple of different methods we you know, I tried some online tools and things like that. I didn't like how they-

00:52:24:16 - 00:52:49:00
Darice
I mean, they were okay, but it wasn't what I visualized, you know? And yeah, and so long story short, what I'm getting to is that, you know, I did all of these things and I, as I mentioned them to some of my colleagues, they were like, you did a lot. But I don't look at it that way.

00:52:49:00 - 00:53:13:00
Darice
I'm like but I didn't do enough. You know, I'm still trying to figure it out and do all these things. And I forget, you know, I forget like, well, yeah, I guess it is a lot, you know, but going back to you with the same idea, you know, when I like I said, I started researching and I'm like, because we hadn't met before and I wanted to learn more about you.

00:53:13:00 - 00:53:36:17
Darice
And I'm like, She's on Netflix! Are you kidding me?

Susan
But it doesn't feel like that.

Darice
But that is that's awesome. Like that, that alone that I mean if I were someone and it's so funny because, and this is a long story, a conversation I had with a friend of mine recently um, I never jumped into it.

00:53:36:17 - 00:54:00:04
Darice
I had an interest in filmmaking, but I'm like, I don't know much about it. So and we were, you know, we were talking about it and, and like our favorite movies and that kind of stuff. And it's like, how cool is that to have, you know, like, honestly accomplishing having your films be on this tool that, you know, millions of people use to watch movies.

00:54:00:04 - 00:54:35:06
Darice
And I mean, to me, that's that's a huge accomplish-you know, from my perspective, it's like that's an amazing accomplishment. And and I guess the what I'm getting at is just giving ourselves some credit and grace and our own recognition of our own accomplishments is like we forget, you know that, yeah, this is a lot like, you know, you're juggling all of these things, being a parent and running workshops and doing doing all these things and thinking about, you know, your next features.

00:54:35:08 - 00:54:54:22
Darice
Um, that's pretty, that's amazing. You know, it's amazing work. And I realize that we're, we're already up in our hour, so I'm like, I don't have enough time to talk to Susan, I need another hour.

Susan
May I ask you question? So when you came up with a deadline. You said, I'm going to get this podcast on by this date.

00:54:55:00 - 00:55:16:14
Susan
I would like to know how you decided on the deadline. I think the reason I don't create deadlines is because I'm a perfectionist, so I don't want to send the work out. And there have been studies about this, women versus men that it's like genetic, like something to do with that. The way that women had to evolve and how men had to evolve.

00:55:16:16 - 00:55:45:06
Susan
So for me, I reason I like the deadline is not because I'm procrastinating, you know, I'm working. Yeah, it's because I want it at a level.

Darice
At a certain level, I'm totally like that. Like, I don't, I could have gone a few different routes in terms of of recording this. And there were some tools that I looked into and I didn't like how it was turning out.

00:55:45:06 - 00:56:10:13
Darice
And then when I considered buying my own equipment and, you know, and I even with that, I felt like, well, I don't even know if I'm going to get the quality that I'm looking for. Um, if I do all of that. And I, so I, this summer, you know, over the summer I spent a ton of time like researching and talking to a lot of different folks across campus, different departments.

00:56:10:15 - 00:56:37:22
Darice
OPAC, you know, all, all different departments that run their own, um, like podcasts and social media and all sorts of things. And I knew I had that, that vision in mind of what I wanted, but I was like, I have to do my job too. I have to do my day job. So how do I do this? And so when I came up with a deadline, it was-okay, so I'll back up a little.

00:56:37:22 - 00:57:05:11
Darice
I sometimes I have-and it may not be the, the best habit, but sometimes I kind of put pressure on myself to to get something done because I know I want to get it done. And luckily with this, there was no deadline like, But I also felt like, well, we got funding. So I sort of had I felt like there was an obligation to have something to show.

00:57:05:13 - 00:57:31:07
Darice
And I, you know, I go through a whole thought process, like I have to have something to show for the time I spend. Like I can't just let months go by and nothing was done or, you know, I didn't accomplish anything. So I kind of put pressure on myself just to have something by, you know, the fall. That was my goal, just to have something by the fall.

00:57:31:09 - 00:58:03:21
Darice
And what I ended up doing was, you know, it kind of goes back to just normal. Well, not normal, but, um, but, you know, as, like you said, as a parent, you write things down and you start figuring it, I literally I have a little notebook that people laugh, So I have to tell you, people laugh at me because they see me with my giant backpack and my giant backpack consists of my iPad, my laptop, and probably two or three notebooks.

00:58:03:23 - 00:58:22:19
Susan
So iPad and laptop.

Darice
Yeah, because there are certain things I like to do on my iPad and there are certain things that I like to do on my laptop. And I'm just weird that way, like, I don't I use certain things for, you know, I use certain tools for certain things. And yeah, people, they're like, why are you carrying so much?

00:58:22:19 - 00:58:49:09
Darice
And I'm like, I don't know, I need all these things. That's how I get things done. And yeah, I had a little notebook every day. I did. You know, I basically just made a list of what I had to do. And then every day, you know, between meetings or lunchtime, I would, if it took me like 5 minutes, just to like, type an email or contact someone.

00:58:49:11 - 00:59:13:15
Darice
Yeah, I tried to get a checklist going and, and it's, but it's not easy. But that's, that's how I try to do things. You know, you may see me online at, you know, midnight or past, you know, one and 2 a.m., you know, you wake up and you're like, I have to do this. And I'm one of those people too, like, and sometimes I hate it because I'll just wake up at 3 a.m. for no reason.

00:59:13:15 - 00:59:45:15
Darice
And then I'm like, okay, I got to write something down. But yeah, and I, it was pressure that I really put on myself to, to do it, because there wasn't, there wasn't a deadline with this, but I felt like I have to have something to show for, you know, for just being allowed to do this. And, you know, and now that there's interest, you know, I kind of, I don't know, it was pressure that I put on myself because I felt like, okay, now people know about it.

00:59:45:17 - 01:00:15:11
Darice
And I didn't want to-I didn't want it to be 2024 and have nothing to show for this idea. And yeah, so yeah, it was really pressure I put on myself, but I didn't, you know, I just wanted to have something to show for, for the fall and, you know, my ultimate goal with the podcast was really highlighting staff, getting to know people.

01:00:15:11 - 01:00:49:05
Darice
I've had a really good time, or great time meeting the folks I've interviewed so far, including you. It changed my-it took me out of my comfort zone because I'm usually behind the scenes, I do the tech stuff. Um, so this was, you know, it's like a growth process for me. So this, it's, it's yeah, it's been a journey.

01:00:49:09 - 01:01:03:19
Darice
It's been a journey for me. So it's yeah, that was pretty much, it's just wanting to have something to show for it, you know and...

Susan
That's so cool that you put like an internal timeline on yourself. No one else was doing it.

01:01:03:19 - 01:01:08:07
Susan
I think I will, I will listen to you like. Yeah, I will listen to you. You're right.

01:01:08:07 - 01:01:29:22
Susan
I have not put a deadline on shooting something new. I haven't. I've just been so like, let me get to the point in the evolution. Doesn't mean I'm not doing it. It just means that the evolution is taking longer. But I think it's great to imagine a deadline. And I think obviously the students only have like four years.

01:01:30:00 - 01:01:46:14
Susan
But I think it's something with filmmakers because when I went to film school, there was a problem at UT-Austin that people were taking seven years to finish their MFA. Or six years. And the degrees only take three years. And it's because they were taking a really long time to finish their films.

01:01:46:15 - 01:02:03:11
Susan
Because they wanted-The woman that took seven years was Helen Li she won a student. Oscar. She just kept working on it, and she wanted it to be masterful. And it was.

Darice
Tweaking and tweaking.

Susan
Yeah, reshooting. And whatever she needs to do to make it incredible, it was. It was incredible.

01:02:03:13 - 01:02:25:01
Susan
Beautiful piece of fiction. But I think, you know, I think this is a really important discussion because then what happens while you're waiting for things to be perfect. So I will, maybe when I leave here, I will take this with me. I will, like, find it someplace to write it down. I mean, like this is the Imagine deadline.

01:02:25:01 - 01:02:41:09
Susan
Right. I have to promise you, though, I have never, with any of my pictures, with any of my work. I've never been like I'm, going to shoot by this date. Never. I've been like, I'm going to kill myself to get everything I need, and then I'll shoot. But the second, no, okay, The second feature I will tell you.

01:02:41:09 - 01:02:57:16
Susan
Okay. The second feature, we had a problem, my first feature was so successful that I got a lot of attention and a lot of there's a to get a film made. The way I've been trained is that to get it to another level, you need like a certain level of producer so that they can get what you need.

01:02:57:18 - 01:03:25:10
Susan
The resources. I worked my butt off and we matched with one guy. Then he bought another guy on, that guy after we raised-we raised a lot of money on our side. He decided he didn't want me to shoot anymore. He said he wanted me to rewrite. And I don't know why.

01:03:25:12 - 01:03:48:23
Susan
And that pulled out hundreds of thousands of dollars from the production, and it led them to the other producer also pulling out. Money just vanished and we didn't know what we were going to do. So I met with someone. I'm not going to mention their name, but let's just say it's someone like very, very prominent in the film industry.

01:03:49:01 - 01:04:05:07
Susan
And they were like, You're just going to have to go to Arkansas. You're going to have to shoot it. And I was like, I don't I literally have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. I've lost producers. And then it was a domino effect. As soon as you lose those people, you lose your line producer, you lose cast, things like, falls.

01:04:05:07 - 01:04:27:20
Susan
And a lot of them, because I've known, they just don't shoot anymore. They just stop. And I was like, well, I guess I have to return all the money that I have. And she was like, you're not going to return that money. You're going to go shoot it. And we went, And then we went-we're almost out of time-we went to Arkansas.

01:04:27:22 - 01:04:46:06
Susan
We landed the day before Christmas Eve. We stayed in a really bad hotel with people doing drug deals like in front of the-yeah it was really bad. And I just decided to go on a walk, which nobody does, in like, Little Rock. I went on a walk and I saw Marriott residence inn and I walked in.

01:04:46:07 - 01:05:00:15
Susan
There was a young woman at the desk and I was like, can I stay in this hotel room? Can I stay here long term? Because I didn't have a place to stay. The place we were staying wasn't that good. And I got a small budget and I didn't know how I was going to finance it. And she said, Let me go talk to somebody.

01:05:00:15 - 01:05:23:17
Susan
She went to talk to somebody. She came back. She gave me a rate, an incredible rate. The next day when I moved in, she bought-I'm going to start crying, but she bought me a bottle of Sofia Coppola wine, with a note really welcoming me. It was a young woman. And a few days after that, I got flown first class memorial Jordanian Airlines to do a workshop in the Middle East.

01:05:23:20 - 01:06:07:10
Susan
And I just kept taking the leap, and it worked out. But it was what that mentor told me. She said, you have to go. And she was right. And I just had to take the leap.

Darice
Take the leap. Wow. That's awesome. What a great story, because it, you know, kind of tying all of this together, you know, your self-worth, your taking the leap, giving yourself some grace and, you know, not necessarily putting pressure on yourself to maybe, you know, it's like setting a deadline to, to at least make baby steps.

01:06:07:10 - 01:06:39:20
Darice
Like, I guess that's what I was getting at, I try to make baby steps towards my ultimate goal, but also what's great about, you know, chatting with you today is that someone doing something so small that makes such an impact for you and it turn into like a life, you know, a life changing moment, right. Because you spoke to this woman and I'm not sure what your conversation was, but she decided to do that for you.

01:06:39:20 - 01:07:05:22
Darice
And it it obviously resonated with you and, you know, that's you know, that's wonderful. And I think that with what you're doing for students, too, and you may not even realize it, you know what I mean? Like you you may not even realize what impact you're having on students when you're sharing this information and sharing all these difficult obstacles that you've been through.

01:07:06:00 - 01:07:31:05
Darice
Um, you know how much it'll affect them later. And, yeah, I just love-I wish we had, like, another hour to chat. So I guess what we'll end on is I'm just wondering if, if you have closing thoughts that you'd like to share just with, you know, the staff or the, you know, students or just Yale college community.

01:07:31:07 - 01:08:07:09
Darice
You know, if you have something that you'd like to share about yourself that you'd like to close on about, you know, your journey from today on. And then we'll close on that note.

Susan
I think one thing I would like to share that, like, has really struck me has been something that a people have been saying to me a lot in the past year, which I've never heard before, which I think to be very mindful, was that some of my colleagues have been saying things to me like, you're a woman of color, filmmaker, everyone's looking for you or you're a woman of color

01:08:07:09 - 01:08:50:11
Susan
academic. You could be a professor anywhere. And I think it is really important that and I okay, it's an oldie and a goodie, but it's still really important that we meet people at a human level and not assume that because somebody's background, oh, it's a white man, so it's easier. Same thing in the other direction. So I really hope that the one thing that I would like at Yale that we can experience is that we-yes, we know who we identify as, but in the end, how far we go really has to do with the internal work that we do.

01:08:50:12 - 01:09:15:10
Susan
And to please be sensitive to each other that we don't speak to people, don't identify what people do because of who they are. Of all the crazy things that have been happening, this is the latest. So it keeps changing-In other words, it doesn't matter how old you are, it's still-

01:09:15:10 - 01:09:45:03
Darice
Yeah, it still comes up. And, you know, I've been talking about that with all my guests. It's like how, how you, your childhood and your experiences and then going into your, you know, uh, college years, your early twenties, they mold you. And then and then you carry all that stuff, you carry all that baggage into your adulthood for the rest of your life, right?

01:09:45:05 - 01:10:01:22
Darice
And you don't, you know, it comes up all the time, right? And then it's like, okay, how do I deal with it? How do I deal with it? And how do I, you know, how do I deal with that-I call it baggage sometimes because it's like, okay, can I put this bag down finally? You know?

01:10:02:00 - 01:10:19:05
Susan
Yeah. I don't want to ever assume somebody has more privilege than me or less. So I may think they do. You were talking about it earlier. I may think they do, but I don't know what their other stuff was.

Darice
Right. You don't know what they're going through or what they've been through.

Susan
Exactly, but I could say, well, that that director is like a billionaire's daughter, blah, blah, blah.

01:10:19:05 - 01:10:39:19
Susan
I don't know what their other stuff was. So it's like on one hand, I say it like to do it for comfort yourself. But also at the same time, uh, to realize that we all have the limits and that we're all carrying something different. Right. So it's okay to assess for your own thing just to give yourself some compassion.

01:10:39:19 - 01:10:57:09
Susan
But Not to be like, oh, you're going to do so much better than me because you are this background or.

Darice
Mm hmm. Like, don't make assumptions.

Susan
Don't make assumptions in the other direction or close your door to people's hearts. Because the person that helped me that day, was a young white woman. That's who helped me that day.

01:10:57:11 - 01:11:14:17
Susan
A 24 year old girl, you know and I was like 37 or something. If I had come up and treated her like a dodo bird, that wouldn't have happened. Yeah, but I treated her with respect. And as with respect, much more respect came back. So I think that's the one thing I really want that we give each other.

01:11:14:17 - 01:11:42:11
Susan
Yeah, that's my biggest wish, I really wish to give that to the students. I that's, I really want to give that to them because they deserve it.

Darice
Awesome. That's amazing. I thank you so much. I like I said, I wish we had another hour and we'll end on that note. Just giving each other respect. I think people forget to do that, you know, just in passing.

01:11:42:13 - 01:12:10:15
Darice
One of my other guests yesterday, Anita Sharif-Hyder, we talked about having an impact on someone, even if your moment with that person could just be 10 seconds, you know, but showing some, like whether it's compassion or respect or how you treat them, can have a lasting impact. And so that was true-that was truly beautiful. So I you know, again, I wish we had more time to chat.

01:12:10:17 - 01:12:29:21
Darice
I'm just happy I finally got to meet you and get to know you. And now I could say that, you know, I have your autograph somewhere and thank you so much for for being willing to do this and being my guest today. Yeah, thank you. That's all I can say. And look out for the episode.

01:12:29:21 - 01:12:45:15
Darice
Now. We're on Spotify, iTunes and SoundCloud coming soon, right? So thank you so much, Susan. This was awesome. It was great to chat with you today.

Susan
Thank you so much for inviting me.

Darice
Yeah, absolutely. And then that's it. Thanks.