Yale College Voices Episode 08. Season 01 Transcription

Fostering IT Inclusivity through User Experience: Sam Cohen’s Unconventional Journey

00;00;00;10 - 00;00;24;25
Darice
Okay. Welcome to our new episode of our podcast, Your College Voices. Today, I have Sam Cohen and really excited to have you here. And I'm Darice Corey for those who don't know. So, Sam, I'm going to introduce you and welcome and talk about your your bio here and then we'll just.

00;00;24;26 - 00;00;54;21
Darice
Yeah, absolutely. So Sam and I, you know, we've worked together for a while, sort of indirectly and on various projects, but so sam is director of I.T. For the Yale Center for International and Professional Experience, which is now known as the Office of International and Summer Programs. So Sam is a dedicated educational technologist who finds true joy in building, designing and constantly learning.

00;00;54;23 - 00;01;22;21
Darice
With a career spanning from graphic design in the San Francisco bay Area to your current role here at Yale. Sam's unique journey has shaped his approach to i.t, infusing it with a creative and user centric perspective. So sam has built numerous web systems and websites for the CC, IP and OSP. He's a lead designer and developer on the Yale College Safety Net Project.

00;01;22;23 - 00;01;53;19
Darice
And prior to his work in Yale College, Sam was part of a team that was charged with building digital learning systems for Yale faculty and departments. Sam's team built applications like a stock market simulator, a companion app for the Peabody Museum and open Yale courses. So prior to his career in I.T., Sam studied and worked as a graphic designer in the San Francisco Bay Area in Western Mass.

00;01;53;22 - 00;02;23;20
Darice
Sam is design banners for the San Francisco Symphony magazine for UC Berkeley's High School of Business and animated graphics for the Bradley International Airport. So Sam mentioned that this is an unusual start for a career in I.T., but he wouldn't have it any other way. His foundation and design informs his work daily as he designs user interfaces and shapes user experiences for Yale students, staff and faculty.

00;02;23;23 - 00;02;45;20
Darice
So Sam and his family and their 14 year old golden retriever mix live in a cozy house surrounded by a forest in Woodbridge, Connecticut. I remember the picture of the bear in the yard right next to it here. And there's one thing that that we didn't mention. So Sam and I have known each other for quite some time over the years here at Yale College.

00;02;45;22 - 00;03;15;17
Darice
So Sam contributed to the Yale College of Website redesign, the award winning? Yes. I was about to mention that the Yale College Web site redesign project, along with my colleagues that I definitely want to mention, Blaze Mark Koya, who is associate director of Web and I.T. Planning, and Sheila Gillooly Green, who is our content editor. And by the way, the Web site won a Webby Award in 2020 for the People's Voice Award for school and university Web sites.

00;03;15;17 - 00;03;20;15
Darice
So welcome, Sam. So, so glad you decided to join me today.

00;03;20;16 - 00;03;25;20
Sam
I feel like after that bio, we don't really even have to do the interviews. That's pretty much everything. Our work here is done.

00;03;25;23 - 00;03;48;19
Darice
But really interesting because, you know, I kind of have a an unusual background to when I coming into I.T., I always knew that I wanted to work in some way with technology. So. So how did it work out for you? Like, did did you start out as a.
00;03;48;19 - 00;04;13;19
Sam
It's a good question. I mean, so honestly, I did not know that I was going to have a career in I.T.. I mean, I always I always loved I always loved technology in the sense that, like, I loved taking stuff apart and putting it back together and sometimes in complete or incorrect ways. But just the the the process of like disassembly within intention of of learning.

00;04;13;20 - 00;04;42;13
Sam
Right. And then, you know, reassembly or reconfigure your thing or making something better or tweaking. That was always a part of it. And that continues to be a part of who I am. So in that sense, when I when I think about that and I and I look back, of course, like a career and it makes sense. But like when I when I started, you know, my at least my educational path to get to where I am right now is very zigzag and very different than I would have ever expected.

00;04;42;13 - 00;05;03;29
Sam
I mean, if I thought back when I when I started, would I have planned it that way? No, no way. But looking back now, I don't think I would have done anything differently because I'm because it made me who I am. Right. And, you know, I really enjoyed who I am right now. And I really enjoy where my educational career path has led me.

00;05;04;02 - 00;05;26;16
Sam
I started. So yeah. So when so let's see where where to start to start this story. So I guess, you know, when I left high school, I didn't know who the heck I was and what the heck I wanted to do. And I sort of arbitrarily chose engineering because of what I mentioned to you about, you know, like enjoying the building process and creation process.

00;05;26;16 - 00;05;50;15
Sam
And that is what engineering is. But those early years in college as an engineering student are not what that is. You know, I was taking calculus and like chemistry and this was at UMass Amherst and great school. Nothing, nothing bad to say about UMass Amherst works for a lot of students. It did not work for me. It was it was like designed to be the exact wrong place, really.

00;05;50;17 - 00;06;11;18
Sam
And like, I can remember my my first class in UMass was a chemistry lecture. And I mean, this is literally like day one. And I sat down in this auditorium full of like 300 other students and like, I remember so distinctly that feeling that I got in my gut where it was like, Huh, I have made a really bad decision.

00;06;11;20 - 00;06;31;20
Sam
This is this is absolutely not going to work for me. And ultimately it it didn't. And honestly, this this is a little bit of a sidebar thing, but like as a graduating senior in high school, I didn't know that there was even an option to, like, not go to college. All my friends were going to college. Everybody seemed excited about it.

00;06;31;22 - 00;06;54;25
Sam
I would have really benefited from taking a year off, working or traveling or doing something else. That's that's a bit of a digression. But at the end of those two semesters at UMass, I, you know, I talked to my parents and I was like, this is just not working. And they they knew that it just wasn't working. And they're, you know, they're they're both great people and they recognize that, like, this is not right for their son.

00;06;54;27 - 00;07;16;17
Sam
And so at that point, I went to community college, I went to Holyoke Community College in Holyoke, Massachusetts. And honestly, like I know here we are in, you know, Yale and an Ivy League institution. But like that, community college experience was so perfect for me at the time, and I'm sure it's perfect for a lot of other other kids, too.

00;07;16;19 - 00;07;38;17
Sam
It was just what I needed. And it was really like when I look back at like all of the education that I've had since, that was such a transformative and important part in my, like educational, like awakening really. I was studying this this thing called Electronic media at the time, which was using these computers called Macintoshes.

00;07;38;17 - 00;07;41;06
Darice
And like, I was like, what do you get? Are these, you know.

00;07;41;08 - 00;07;42;12
Sam
The big windows, the.

00;07;42;12 - 00;07;44;00
Darice
Big square ones?

00;07;44;00 - 00;07;51;13
Sam
No, I mean, these this is I mean, you know, this is going to reveal how old I am to everyone. But this was like Mac OS.

00;07;51;16 - 00;07;51;21
Darice
90.

00;07;51;24 - 00;07;55;12
Sam
One. And it was like it was you know, they were still like beige boxes.

00;07;55;12 - 00;07;56;10
Darice
Oh, okay, go get it.

00;07;56;12 - 00;08;29;15
Sam
But, you know, but, you know, like, I was I was building, like, graphics using these computers and animations, using these computers. And I had an instructor slash mentor at the time. His name was Justin West and use this this big, tall, gray haired guy. And like, he was such an impactful figure on my educational upbringing because he was one of those instructors that like, genuinely wanted you to succeed and was there to do everything that he possibly could to help you succeed.

00;08;29;18 - 00;08;40;25
Sam
Where at UMass. And, you know, again, nothing bad to say about UMass. This is just my personal experience. UMass was the exact opposite of that. It was just like, What can we do to make you fail?

00;08;41;02 - 00;08;42;01
Darice
You know? So.

00;08;42;03 - 00;09;15;14
Sam
So going going to school and, you know, learning with with, you know, this this guy was just amazing. And like, I really understood that like, women actually do like learning and I do there there is a future path for me and it's definitely not engineering and it is this thing in front of me, this box in front of me that I can use as a creative tool to like, build, you know, amazing graphics and, you know, do these little animations and like, I just fell in love with the computer.

00;09;15;14 - 00;09;46;04
Sam
Not, not, not the computer itself, but like, what I could do with with the what it enabled. And it was like I said, it was just such like a transformative moment in my in my life. And then, you know, I graduated there with an associate's degree, and somehow I managed to get a graphic design job. And it was it was this was also important to this was at a place that made these giant industrial heating and air conditioning well.

00;09;46;07 - 00;09;48;18
Darice
So essentially, they're like these.

00;09;48;21 - 00;10;10;14
Sam
Giant like like gray boxes that sit on top of buildings. And my my job as the graphic designer for this company was to somehow make these giant gray boxes exciting, like, how do you how do you do that? It's like the most boring subject in the world. But as a graphic designer, you got to you've got to make those advertisements in those catalogs and you got to make people want to buy these giant gray boxes.

00;10;10;20 - 00;10;44;00
Sam
So I learned a lot about that. But I think what was impactful about that role was the fact that it was in. So, geez, this was probably like 1998 or something. Don't don't judge me. I'm so old. But it was like that moment where, like, everybody was having was was having websites and the internet was, was like being like, built and was this new exciting thing that was happening all around me and that company was like, Hey, Sam, you know, you know this thing called Photoshop, right?

00;10;44;00 - 00;10;47;11
Sam
And you've probably heard of the Internet. Do you think you could maybe make a website?

00;10;47;15 - 00;10;50;26
Darice
Yes. So I was like, I'll give it a shot. Right?

00;10;51;02 - 00;11;11;04
Sam
And, you know, I made I made this horrible website and, you know, I made it in Photoshop and then I cut it up and I brought it into Dreamweaver. And then I used this application called Fetch, which was an application. I put it on the web. And then like the moment when I typed in the URL and I saw my horrible website in a web browser, right?

00;11;11;06 - 00;11;13;01
Sam
Was just it was magical.

00;11;13;01 - 00;11;13;24
Darice
I mean, it was.

00;11;13;25 - 00;11;33;01
Sam
Really it felt like magic to me. And the idea that like anyone in the world, whether they were, you know, across the globe in like Japan or something, could type in that URL on an Internet enabled computer and see that design that was that was really magical.

00;11;33;01 - 00;11;34;16
Darice
It is, Yeah. Yeah.

00;11;34;24 - 00;11;52;29
Sam
So I mean, that, that kind of, you know and so and so you know, I was still very much in the design realm at that point. But, you know, like I was like, well, how can I make these static buttons do something? So, you know, I had learned limited JavaScript and then I was like, well, I'd like a web form, so I need to learn some PHP.

00;11;52;29 - 00;11;59;05
Sam
And then it's like, well, you know, people are submitting things via this web form. Where are they going to go? They're not going to database.

00;11;59;05 - 00;11;59;09
Darice
So.

00;11;59;14 - 00;12;06;02
Sam
Right. So, you know, so one thing led to another and then all of a sudden I had this like this like web, this informal sort of like web stack.

00;12;06;02 - 00;12;07;05
Darice
Yeah.

00;12;07;06 - 00;12;27;14
Sam
And then and then from there I'll skip over a lot of this because I'm going along with it. But I went to California. I lived in the Bay Area. That was a super exciting time. So the San Francisco Bay area. So that was a super exciting time to be like involved in the internet and like graphic design at the time because that was like the height of the.

00;12;27;14 - 00;12;28;19
Sam
Dotcom boom.

00;12;28;21 - 00;12;49;23
Sam
And you know, stuff was happening so fast and I got another graphic design job there. And, you know, I was building like, you know, I was doing still doing a lot of print work, but I was also building these like web graphics and things like that. And then I came back to Massachusetts. This is the point in the story where where your listeners are like, why would you come back to Massachusetts?

00;12;49;23 - 00;12;55;15
Sam
Sounds like things are. I came back for a girl Darice and that girl dumped me.

00;12;55;15 - 00;12;56;07
Sam
And then.

00;12;56;09 - 00;12;57;11
Sam
moved to Australia.

00;12;57;12 - 00;12;58;12
Darice
i thought you were going to say.

00;12;58;17 - 00;13;02;24
Sam
Shortly after actually out here. I know but but but that's okay because, you know, again.

00;13;02;24 - 00;13;03;08
Darice
It led to you being here.

00;13;03;09 - 00;13;24;09
Sam
But it led led to me being here. So. So I was I found myself back in Massachusetts and I contacted my my old job, the big gray boxes job, and they hired me back into my old role, which is great. And so while I was there, this was in Westfield, Massachusetts. I took classes at Westfield State College at the time.

00;13;24;09 - 00;13;53;20
Sam
It's now Westfield State University. And got my my bachelor's degree, very traditional degree in graphic design. So that was sort of like formalized, which was cool. And then when I graduated there, they they asked me to teach, they asked me to become adjunct faculty there. And like that was sort of the moment where I realized that, like, I knew I loved being a part of academia from both like the learning side, but also the the instructional side.

00;13;53;20 - 00;14;19;15
Sam
And it was, you know, like that same moment that you have at a as a student or anywhere in life really, where like you figure something out and you just you just feel so, like empowered by what you've, what you've just, like, figured out and discovered. It's yeah, it's, it's so much fun to be an instructor and give that experience to a student, you know, help, help them help them get to that moment where, like, they're working.

00;14;19;15 - 00;14;37;00
Sam
I was teaching graphic design, working on a design and like, it's just not coming together. And, you know, you like you're like, okay, well, like, is this is this balance? Like, what can we do with colors here? And just sort of like, like nudge them in the right to coach them? Yeah, nudge them in the right direction to get to the point where they have that aha moment and it's like, wow, it just came together.

00;14;37;00 - 00;14;38;12
Darice
It's just it's just really magical.

00;14;38;17 - 00;15;01;06
Sam
Oh, that's. Yeah. So let me, let me, let me, let me abridge the rest of this. So from, from there I came to Connecticut to get my master's at Quinnipiac. It was and you know, program interactive communications. Very good, very fun. I learned a lot there. They also asked me to teach after I had graduated, which was super cool.

00;15;01;06 - 00;15;13;08
Sam
So I was I was still a part of of, you know, the the learning process in that way. And then I got a job at Fairfield University. You're a Fairfield Law firm. I know.

00;15;13;08 - 00;15;15;18
Darice
Go stags. Yeah. There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;15;15;21 - 00;15;41;24
Sam
And, and I was I was a programmer there, so like, that was a big departure from a lot of what I was doing. I was still, even though I had this, like, you know, love of technology and I had this understanding of the typical, like, you know, open source web stack. At the time I it wasn't really formal, but they for some reason, you know, decided to hire me as a programmer.

00;15;41;27 - 00;16;16;13
Sam
I was like a web programmer. And I was building these websites and these web applications and, you know, like these calendaring systems and these other these other things. And like, it really, like, figured out that like, this is this is kind of who I am. This, this marriage of like, like being entrenched in technology, but also like loving the design aspect of it because, you know, like you can build the best system in the world, but if it has a crappy user interface on top of it, it's dead before it even launches, right?

00;16;16;13 - 00;16;38;22
Sam
So like marrying those two things together was such, such a such a smart way for my career to go. And that's that's kind of what I was able to do at Fairfield. Then I came here to this fine university where we are right now. I'm working as an instructional technologist, and this was this is for the the Center for Media and Instructional Innovation.

00;16;38;22 - 00;16;42;14
Sam
That's when from from from the BIOS. And we did open courses.

00;16;42;14 - 00;16;43;05
Darice
And stock.

00;16;43;05 - 00;17;26;12
Sam
Market simulator and I was working with with David Hirsch at the at the time he was my instructor and he recognized that like you're here to do instructional technology, but you have this like varied background, you have this design background, you've this programing background. So he let me really like shape that, that position to be whatever I wanted to be, which was like bringing all of those things together and Yeah, and then, then here I am at the CFP, no longer the CAIB, the OSP as the director of of I.t, where I'm still able to bring all of those, those pieces together, even though the position is called a director and lots of folks would

00;17;26;12 - 00;17;51;02
Sam
assume that the director of I.T directs it, which is what I'm doing, but I'm also super hands on because that's, that's why I love, you know, I love the process of like building and creating. And so those are still the things that I try to bring into my work. Even though there are budgets now and, you know, management tasks and those kinds of things, I still need to get my hands dirty and like and like actively participate in the building process.

00;17;51;04 - 00;18;19;12
Darice
Oh, that's so awesome. I love that story because it there's so many things you mentioned that are very similar to my background and how I came into I.T, which I won't go into that story. We talked, about maybe you interviewing. I can't wait. But yeah, and I'll, share all of that then. But because it's me too, it was kind of like, oh wow, I took all of these interesting turns and then never would have expected it.

00;18;19;12 - 00;18;23;11
Sam
To unfold that way. But that's the way it did. And that made you the person that you are.

00;18;24;00 - 00;18;25;26
Sam
I am. And like it just worked.

00;18;25;26 - 00;18;58;22
Darice
Out and it's what I find amazing about that is even though it is like the unconventional approach to where you are now, all of all of those experiences contribute to how well you do your job now, because your approach is one thing I've always liked about you is like Sam is like totally user focused, you know, like all the time, like consistently even, you know, the, you know, the back end, you know what I mean?

00;18;58;22 - 00;19;19;23
Darice
Like, you know, you know how to build stuff, you know, the back end. But all of those experiences, I think, shaped and mold molded how you approach the the user experience and or, you know, literally you're thinking, you know, how people feel or interact with whatever it is that you're building.

00;19;19;26 - 00;19;30;11
Sam
And kind of you say if that if the podcast listeners should know that I'm blushing right now, that's a, that's very kind of you. I mean, that's why it was it was so wonderful to work with you and your team on your college project.

00;19;30;28 - 00;19;43;09
Sam
You guys appreciate that aspect of the build process too. And, you know, recognize that like that's just as important as like the Drupal framework that we're building upon. So yeah, yeah, I think that was, that was, that was a good, that was a good team up and I think.

00;19;43;10 - 00;19;55;09
Darice
That's why I think yeah, it really was a you know and it's I always tell folks, you know, we won the People's Voice Award because I feel like yeah, it was built for the people, you know, and that was our goal.

00;19;55;10 - 00;19;56;22
Sam
There was a trophy that yeah.

00;19;56;25 - 00;20;24;06
Darice
There was a trophy and yeah, no cash prizes. Yeah. No that's, yeah. Only, only the, you know, the ability to say hey we Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I mean it's fascinating to hear how you know your initial experience started out as wanting you enjoyed breaking things. It sounds like you enjoyed breaking things and putting it back together.

00;20;24;09 - 00;20;43;29
Darice
Yeah. Yes, that's. That's actually it. You know, when I said I had a similar experience, I'm the same way like when I was younger. I just liked to know how things work. Yeah. And for some strange reason, that was fun to me. Yeah. You know, like I, I liked because it's taking the pieces apart.

00;20;43;29 - 00;21;04;21
Sam
Yeah. It's like, you know, every time you peel back a layer to figure out what's going on underneath you, you learn about that process, right? You learn. So, I mean, like, you look at, like, anything, like a like a bicycle, right? You know, it's like I twist this thing on the handlebar and it pulls this.

00;21;04;23 - 00;21;05;03
Sam
You know.

00;21;05;05 - 00;21;25;05
Sam
Wire right here that then pulls this thing and moves this over here. And it's so cool to watch it happen. And you know, it's like it's also very cool to get on that bicycle ride across town. But like, understanding like the the components that work together to make this thing operate in such a seamless way is so cool.

00;21;25;05 - 00;21;41;04
Sam
And you can't you can't really that is not something that you can get instinctually. You have to peel back those layers and you have to like take it one layer at a time. You know, you peel back this layer and you see that like, Oh, okay, this. When I pull this, it, it pulls that wire that you peel back the next layer.

00;21;41;04 - 00;21;56;01
Sam
And I'm like, okay, But when that when that wire gets pulled, it, you know, moves the trailer over here and moves the chain onto this thing. And then when then, you know, you realize like the physics of that. Well, when like, you know, when the chain is on this smaller sprocket and it affects the.

00;21;56;01 - 00;21;59;14
Darice
System this way. Right. And like a domino effect to.

00;21;59;14 - 00;22;16;26
Sam
Peel back those layers in order to understand how something works. And I think there's an inherent fear sometimes in peeling back those those layers, especially because, like, you know, well, I'll peel back these layers and especially if you're working on something physical, I'll peel back these layers and I won't be able.

00;22;16;26 - 00;22;18;05
Darice
To get it, get it back together.

00;22;18;07 - 00;22;27;15
Sam
But I think in order to do the work that we do and in order to love the kind of work that we do, I think you have to get over your fear of peeling.

00;22;27;15 - 00;22;28;29
Sam
Back the layers because.

00;22;28;29 - 00;22;52;08
Sam
There's there's there's so much to discover underneath those layers and it makes you so much more informed in the work that you're doing when you understand those, like, low level concepts that are going together to produce the thing that you're producing. Yeah, but, but again, like, ultimately, like it's not about for the end user anyway. It's not about how the bicycle works.

00;22;52;08 - 00;23;20;14
Sam
It's about the fact that they can use this tool to get across town, right? And so I think there's a there's a there's a balancing act there. Like it's critical as somebody who's building the bicycle to understand how the bicycle works and how to optimize the bicycle. But at the end of the day, the fact that the end user doesn't necessarily have to think about how the bicycle works to get it from, you know, point A to point B, right, is is a success.

00;23;20;14 - 00;23;28;03
Sam
Right. If you give them the bicycle and they never think about all of those layers that we just talked about, but they can get from point A to point B, it's a success.

00;23;28;03 - 00;23;41;17
Darice
Right. That they can use that tool and that, you know, that's what we're here for with with what we do. We hopefully make all of the tools easy. Yeah. You know, for for our users so that they can do what they need to do.

00;23;41;21 - 00;24;12;10
Sam
Yeah. And I mean, and I think that's what's so liberating about working on the Web is that, you know, you can make a change that will instantaneously and immediately affect the end product. Right? So, you know, back when I when I was working in print, right, once the ink gets on the page, you're done, right? So if you have introduced a typo or or even an advertisement that's not as like optimized as you'd like it to be, once it's, you know, once there it is on the paper and that catalog is in the mail, it's done.

00;24;12;10 - 00;24;19;10
Sam
That's like fixed in, you know, permanently. But but working on the web is wonderful. You know, you can go and you can fix typos all day long.

00;24;19;17 - 00;24;20;04
Darice
And there are plenty.

00;24;20;04 - 00;24;20;23
Sam
Of typos out there.

00;24;20;25 - 00;24;25;28
Darice
Yeah. So, yeah, you can always you can always fix it, right? Yeah, you can still fix it.

00;24;25;28 - 00;24;28;15
Sam
Hit publish. And there it is, ready for the world.

00;24;28;17 - 00;24;44;26
Darice
That's that's what I think I enjoyed most about my accidental, uh, I had a similar experience where it was like, Hey, you, you do i.t So can you just do the say? And it's like, sure, sure I can. Yeah, but, but that's.

00;24;44;26 - 00;25;06;17
Sam
It right there. Like the willingness to like, learn something that you don't already have a mastery of. Yeah, I think what is what defines a good technologist. Yes. You know because, because technology changes all the time and quickly and if you don't have, that's one of those things that like you can't really learn. It just has to be a part of your your.

00;25;06;19 - 00;25;07;19
Darice
Personality, I.

00;25;07;19 - 00;25;07;25
Sam
Think.

00;25;07;25 - 00;25;09;25
Darice
Person Like your DNA. Yeah. To be a good.

00;25;09;25 - 00;25;13;17
Sam
Technologist is just the willingness to constantly learn new things.

00;25;13;17 - 00;25;22;02
Darice
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's for me, that was the most exciting part, was that it always changed. You know, it's always changing. There's always something new to learn.

00;25;22;02 - 00;25;24;11
Sam
Monday is never the same as Tuesday.

00;25;24;13 - 00;25;35;28
Darice
New stuff. I you know, I always said I wish I had enough time in the day or, you know, like the Matrix and just plug in and download and have all that knowledge because there's so I mean there's so much.

00;25;36;02 - 00;25;36;23
Sam
Except.

00;25;36;23 - 00;25;37;19
Darice
Accessible.

00;25;37;21 - 00;25;44;03
Sam
The, the, the process of learning I think is just as important of ultimately having the.

00;25;44;03 - 00;26;15;12
Darice
Knowledge. Absolutely right. And I want to go back to what you mentioned with your experience, your early experience going to college. And I had a similar experience as well where, you know, the the the teaching format maybe or the approach just didn't didn't work for me early on. Yeah. You know, the whole and I don't know what your was your experience for me it was a lot of lectures Yeah I mean and I need the hands on.

00;26;15;12 - 00;26;37;16
Sam
Yes that's, that's exactly right. I mean, you know, recognizing that everybody learns different things differently, saying and recognizing the way that you learn best, you personally learn best, I think is important. And I know personally when I was going into college for that, that first, you know, the first time at UMass, I didn't know that about myself. I mean, you know, I was 18 years old.

00;26;37;16 - 00;26;59;14
Sam
I knew anything about myself. Right. But, you know, I know. And it sounds like you're the same Like I know that like for me to learn, I need to be doing I need my hands on a thing to to to learn as effectively as possible. You know, I am not one that learns from a book. A lot of people do learn from us.

00;26;59;14 - 00;27;01;13
Sam
That's why we're I mean, we're surrounded by books right now.

00;27;01;13 - 00;27;02;06
Darice
Right. Right.

00;27;02;08 - 00;27;20;29
Sam
And, you know, I respect books. I've typeset, you know, dozens of books. But but I am not the kind of person that can get knowledge in that way from from a book. I if I really want it to be a part of who I am and a part of my skill set, I need to be doing, I need to be building.

00;27;20;29 - 00;27;25;13
Sam
I need to be like physically interacting and physically interacting can mean typing on a keyboard.

00;27;25;13 - 00;27;25;22
Darice
Yeah.

00;27;25;22 - 00;27;30;15
Sam
Which is what I do mostly these days. Yeah, but. But it can also be taking a part of high school.

00;27;30;15 - 00;28;04;11
Darice
Yeah. Yeah. No. And that's so true. And I so. So I'm curious. Well, what would you, you know if you had to advise a student who may be coming into Yale and they're starting to feel like, you know what, what am I doing here? What kind of advice would you give? Oh, my gosh, that's a great question in their approach, because I think it's important to realize that some formats of teaching just do not or may not work for for everyone.

00;28;04;11 - 00;28;11;25
Darice
Right. And I you know, I don't even know how I would approach it as a Yale student. Well, yeah.

00;28;11;26 - 00;28;42;07
Sam
I mean, I think it's what we just we just discussed a moment ago. Yeah. Like, like to take some time and really figure out, like, what your learning style is and, you know, and a lot of what you're learning style is, I think is a reflection of who you are and what's important to you. Right. And I think the earlier this is this is me talking to my former self, you know, if I could if I could sit down with Sam of 18, 18 years old, this is what I would say.

00;28;42;07 - 00;29;04;26
Sam
I would I would tell him like like take some time and just really figure out like who you are as a as a professional and who you are as a as a person. And like, you know, just recognize that and work with that. That's not to say especially, you know, as you're embarking on an educational journey, that's not to say that you are never going to have to sit down with a book.

00;29;05;00 - 00;29;05;10
Darice
Textbooks.

00;29;05;16 - 00;29;10;14
Sam
With a textbook. You're going to have to. But the the sooner that you. But you're going to hate it.

00;29;10;19 - 00;29;11;05
Darice
Yeah. Yeah.

00;29;11;08 - 00;29;24;27
Sam
So the sooner that you can balance that with some of the things that you like, you will have a much more fulfilling and satisfying educational experience. I would also say to sort of make this a little bit more selfish, I guess this whole thing itself, it's all about me.

00;29;24;29 - 00;29;25;25
Darice
You.

00;29;25;27 - 00;30;05;00
Sam
But, you know, if I were to sit down with somebody, a student, a young person that was ultimately trying to have a career in either graphic design or in i.t. I would, I would tell them that yes, yes, school is important and learn as much as you can, but also start building your portfolio. And I don't mean like your official portfolio that you, you know, submit in a job interview or anything, but I mean like build things and put, you know, build little like utilities program little utilities and put them on GitHub and like contribute to the community and make make designs for your friends band.

00;30;05;00 - 00;30;05;11
Sam
And just.

00;30;05;11 - 00;30;06;09
Darice
Like have.

00;30;06;15 - 00;30;28;04
Sam
Stuff that you can point to and you can say, I built this so that when it comes time, when you when you leave college and you're looking for a job, you you will have something to show for your time in it. And you know, it's it's it's not going to be polished my, you know, my stuff when I was like a young graphic designer and early graphic designer was not polished.

00;30;28;04 - 00;30;29;03
Sam
I look back at it right now.

00;30;29;03 - 00;30;30;27
Sam
I know it's so embarrassing. I know.

00;30;30;27 - 00;30;34;25
Sam
But it helped get me that first job in that first job got me that second job.

00;30;34;25 - 00;30;35;11
Darice
Yes.

00;30;35;18 - 00;30;55;25
Sam
You know, you build your portfolio if you leave school and you in all you have to show for it is is your grades. That's that's great. That's one thing. But for the for the kind of work that you know I do and if I were looking to hire somebody to do that work, I would want to see examples.

00;30;55;25 - 00;31;05;17
Sam
And again, like they don't have to be polished. But like, I would I would just want to see that. So that would be that is what I would tell a young version of myself who's just just sort of starting out.

00;31;05;21 - 00;31;38;09
Darice
That's awesome. And yeah, I think that's that. You made another great point, just in terms of you may have your courses and, you know, whatever coursework you have, but I think it's also important in the learning process to just, just try to build stuff or, you know, and that's how I learned. I think a lot of what I learned was I don't I don't want to say completely self-taught, but it was, you know, early iterations of YouTube and and literally just downloading whatever it was.

00;31;38;09 - 00;31;41;22
Darice
And so to play around with it and break it, you know, and yeah, yeah.

00;31;41;23 - 00;31;42;24
Sam
Don't be afraid to break things.

00;31;42;24 - 00;31;49;24
Darice
Yeah. Yeah. I used an old computer, set up a server and you know, have at it and, and, uh.

00;31;49;27 - 00;32;03;15
Sam
Yeah, and I mean, especially at that point in your, you know, professional career, educational career, like, the stakes are so low, right? Yeah. You can stand up a server and break it and like, you know, you're not going to like, close your university website?

00;32;03;22 - 00;32;04;18
Darice
Exactly.

00;32;04;21 - 00;32;07;19
Sam
So, like, so, like that's the time to experiment, right?

00;32;07;19 - 00;32;41;18
Darice
Right. So yeah, yeah, I highly recommend that. Um, so that's a great point. So I'm curious, you know, you had, you have experience teaching and what again, what I really like about you is just your, your energy level that's on the topic. Yeah, that's cool. But yeah, I mean you always I've always observed that you have this passion, you know, you have this, this passion for just stories showing people how to do something or use this tool or, you know, the benefits of the tool and that's that kind of thing.

00;32;41;18 - 00;33;08;22
Darice
And so I'm curious how that and I already know, but I would love for you to tell us or tell our listeners how you you pull out of those experiences, you know, teaching and you know, your past work experience into how you approach, um, showing stuff like all of these things that you built. Like for example, you mentioned early on that like a safe, the safety net.

00;33;08;24 - 00;33;14;05
Darice
Yeah. Project and that that was huge right? That Yeah, yeah. That's one of the things I'm.

00;33;14;05 - 00;33;14;19
Sam
Really proud.

00;33;14;19 - 00;33;23;23
Darice
Of. Yeah. It's an amazing accomplishment. So first tell us a little bit more about safety net and then tell us a little bit more about, okay, just how you approach showing folks. Yeah.

00;33;23;26 - 00;33;50;08
Sam
I mean, you know, credit where credit's due. Safety net was not all me. I mean the the team so I was the, the programmer, right. So I like built the thing that people use when they use safety net. But the the idea for safety net was a collaborative effort. You know, beloved Jane Edwards was a who just recently retired, was, you know, a big a big a big influencer and safety net.

00;33;50;11 - 00;34;06;11
Sam
Rebecca Westfall, who was the former director of fellowships who who just left this position. Kelly McLaughlin study abroad. Bergey Howard of student engagement. So lots of lots of people really interested. So so just to be clear, I don't want to take.

00;34;06;11 - 00;34;06;27
Sam
Full credit for.

00;34;06;27 - 00;34;38;12
Sam
That. It was a classic, but the thing that people use when they use safety net was on me. So what is safety net? So safety net is a system that allows for students that are know, college students that are experiencing an unexpected financial hardship to request money. So what would that be? So it could be anything as sort of minimal, like I'm a student from Florida and I've never experienced a Connecticut winter before and wow, it's cold here in the winter.

00;34;38;15 - 00;35;02;16
Sam
And I only brought a hooded sweatshirt, you know, So I need some money to to get a winter coat. And so that's it. Or on the other side of the spectrum, it's, you know, I'm I'm a student. I'm here in Connecticut right now, but I live in California. And my grandmother passed away and I need to get to California fast from Connecticut so that I can go to her, her funeral.

00;35;02;19 - 00;35;29;04
Sam
And I don't have money to do that. And so student can put in a request and it goes through some processes and then that request gets gets funded. Lots of requests get rejected, too, but those legitimate requests get funded and soon get some money and they can they can do the thing. Yeah. What was impactful and important about safety net is that prior to its existence, students would get this money, but only if they knew who to ask.

00;35;29;06 - 00;35;59;17
Sam
So, you know, a student that was savvy and outgoing and had a good relationship with their, you know, residential college dean or whatever, or an academic advisor or whatever would know to ask these things and ultimately get money. But a student that was less savvy or shy or just didn't have those connections yet, but had a had a legitimate need, the same legitimate need as the other student would not know who to ask and ultimately not get their their thing funded.

00;35;59;17 - 00;36;41;20
Sam
And one of the things that safety net did that I think was so important was that it leveled the playing field, Right? It made it so that students could submit these requests in one central location and administrators from, you know, all across campus residential college deans and, you know, all the and the financial aid office and, you know, like the the athletics person that's involved can all go in, look at the requests that's relevant to them, to the you know, to a student that's, you know, within their residential college or whatever and, you know, weigh in on that request and put all of the information in alongside the requests so that there weren't these like

00;36;41;20 - 00;37;21;02
Sam
side channels where like, you know, like, like Administrator A is picking up the phone and calling Administrator B and they're making some decision that administrative C doesn't know anything about. So now all of the information that has that relates to that request is built into the system. So as administrator D can now go into the system, look at that request and get a full like lifecycle snapshot of like what that request was From the moment the student submitted it, all of the documentation that they submitted, all of the dialog between all of the administrators and also the student has the ability to continue to work with administrators on that request and it all gets captured

00;37;21;02 - 00;37;41;16
Sam
in the system. So yeah, so and you know, it doesn't mean other things like, like, like reporting and, you know, all kinds of other other stuff like that. So it was so, you know, well here. So when we talk about, you know, DIY EIB stuff, this is firmly in the camp of inclusion. I think.

00;37;41;22 - 00;37;42;11
Darice
Because.

00;37;42;11 - 00;38;04;21
Sam
Of that, that like leveling of the playing field effect where like all students, regardless of what their personality is or, you know, where they are on campus or what they do on campus, all students have access to this system and all of these requests are treated entirely fairly and exactly the same across across the board. And I'm really I'm really proud of that.

00;38;04;21 - 00;38;28;03
Sam
I mean, I'm proud that, you know, we we gave this tool to the administrators to make it easier for them and, of course, for the students that they now have the ability to get these financial requests financed so that they can go and, you know, do these things that they need to do. And especially at a time where things are not great.

00;38;28;03 - 00;39;04;21
Sam
You know, the reason they're submitting a request is because something is not great. Right. And we have a lot of money at Yale. So they should be able and they are a part of the Yale community. So we saved enough for staff. But anyway, but, but, but, but, you know, you know, it is it is our responsibility as as staff to keep our students safe and make sure that all of that that stuff, all of the stuff that safety net would go and fund it's taken care of so that that can get out of the way so that they can focus on what they're here to do, which is which is learn and, you know,

00;39;04;23 - 00;39;22;29
Sam
be amazing young adults. So so I'm really I'm really proud of that project. I'm really I was really excited to be a part of that team. And it was it was such a rewarding thing to build and it has it has grown to it's expanded so much. I mean, it's been around for around like five years now.

00;39;22;29 - 00;39;23;12
Sam
Yeah. I think.

00;39;23;14 - 00;39;46;06
Sam
Yeah. And it has it from the moment that we, it, we understood its impact, but I don't think we understood the extent of its impact and because of that, that the extent of its impact, we've been able to grow it and add more features and add more utility to it. So it is definitely like a living, breathing thing just because it's it's launched right now, it's in no way is it like, you know, the stamp goes on, it, it's.

00;39;46;06 - 00;40;13;14
Darice
Done in fact. Yeah. Yeah. It's constantly evolving. Yeah. And yeah. And that that's really exciting because like you said, it levels the playing field for, for students. One of the common themes that is come up in our past episodes is our younger versions. Having access to information or access to mentors or just even knowing who to ask and for what or where to go for help is.

00;40;13;14 - 00;40;20;24
Darice
Yeah, you know, and having that available makes such a huge difference in, you know, in your time here.

00;40;20;24 - 00;40;47;10
Sam
Yeah. And I mean, you know, there's a there's a lot of support structures in place for students. You know they have their Franco advisors and their academic advisors and their, you know, college advisors. And safety net is just a tool that is available all for all. So so the way that I imagine safety net being used often is a student is talking to one of their advisors and is saying like this thing is happening and I'm distraught.

00;40;47;12 - 00;40;55;14
Sam
And then that advisor knows to say, well, like there's a solution to your problem in safety net, go put your request in and you know, it'll be okay.

00;40;55;15 - 00;41;22;21
Darice
Yeah, Yeah. And that's really comforting because I can only imagine, you know, especially for students who, like you said, maybe aren't from Connecticut and they've moved away from home and they're here. And maybe that's daunting. Yeah, daunting, isolated. And, you know, I can't imagine because I was a commuter, you know, when I when I went to college, because I ended up staying home in the comfort of home.

00;41;22;23 - 00;41;50;29
Darice
But the reason I chose that was and this is a long story, I was going to go away to school in Atlanta. I was actually interested in Spelman and my because my brother lived in Atlanta. Okay. And that same year. So he decided to move back to Connecticut. And I was so scared to leave Connecticut without having, like, some sort of.

00;41;50;29 - 00;41;51;08
Sam
Yeah.

00;41;51;09 - 00;42;09;05
Darice
Connection out there. And so, you know, I ended up changing my mind and I applied locally. But yeah, I can't imagine going to a whole different place and not having access to resources and knowing who to ask. Yeah. For help, you know, And.

00;42;09;09 - 00;42;10;14
Sam
That's why it's called safety net.

00;42;10;15 - 00;42;10;26
Darice
Yeah.

00;42;10;26 - 00;42;29;29
Sam
Because it provides that at least, at least the, of all of the things that, you know a student worries about a financial hardship is not, is not something that they need to worry about. So that provides that safety net for that aspect of of of the total of their anxieties. Hopefully that one can can be easily realized.

00;42;30;02 - 00;42;55;26
Darice
You remove the obstacle. Yeah right. Yeah. That's amazing. I love that story. And I'm curious if you could tell us about you know, I know that again, with my experience with you throughout the years, again, you just have you you show passion in your work a lot. You know, and I I've experienced others where it's like, yeah, they do.

00;42;55;29 - 00;43;03;14
Darice
You know, if they've built something and they do a demo. Yeah, you could tell when someone's really passionate about, about their work.

00;43;03;14 - 00;43;26;21
Sam
And I'm lucky because I'm doing work that I, that I love that you, you know, And like, I recognize that like, not everyone is that lucky, but I'm, also lucky. And, you know, I think it's only recently in my sort of adulthood that I that I recognize this. But I've been really lucky because the people that I've reported to I have already named, a couple of them David Hirsch of CMI, too.

00;43;26;23 - 00;44;02;08
Sam
And absolutely Jane Edwards, without a doubt allowed me to to build the position and, you know, configure the position in the way that it needed to be configured for my own personal happiness. Right. But at the same time also structured in a way where I'm I'm satisfying the requirements of, the job and, and also hopefully bringing bringing more than what was expected to the job because I'm able to to craft it in such a way.

00;44;02;08 - 00;44;14;28
Sam
I'm able to bring all of the pieces from my educational and professional experience together to to build out this, this position. And you know, give to my colleagues everything that I've learned from from all of those experiences.

00;44;14;28 - 00;44;16;05
Darice
Yeah, that's so awesome.

00;44;16;08 - 00;44;27;24
Sam
But but I, but I do you know, I think it's important to recognize that I'm really I'm really lucky, you know, like, if I if I had a different job, if I worked at Home Depot, well, I couldn't bring in my, you know, graphic design.

00;44;27;24 - 00;44;28;24
Sam
Creativity like.

00;44;28;28 - 00;44;34;15
Sam
There would be no opportunity to do that. So, like, I absolutely recognize that that is a that is a privilege.

00;44;34;16 - 00;45;02;18
Darice
It is a privilege. And but I think it is important, you know, whether whether you worked in higher ed or you worked in a corporate environment, giving your staff or giving employees that that wiggle room to use that creativity and to feel, you know, I think it really builds your passion for your work and it leads to a happier employee.

00;45;02;25 - 00;45;20;06
Darice
Yeah, I honestly feel that way because if if if it's so strict in, you know, structured and you're only expected to deliver, you know, X, Y, Z, you know, after a while, I think I think it leads to being burned out. I know exactly. That's exactly what I say. Yeah. Yeah.

00;45;20;07 - 00;45;45;28
Sam
I mean, you know, one of the things that I learned from from Jane Edwards actually is that one of the roles of a good manager is to remove obstacles for the for the people that report to you, you know, so that you can put them in a space where they can thrive. Yes. Right. And and Jane constantly did that.

00;45;45;28 - 00;45;49;23
Sam
You know, I would I would come to her with it. Sometimes. I was just venting to her.

00;45;49;23 - 00;45;50;16
Darice
Yeah.

00;45;50;16 - 00;46;04;13
Sam
Even not even expecting her to solve a problem for me. But I would I would come to her with a problem and she'd take some notes and she was like, I will. I will handle this for you. And like, you know, that that problem, which was like a roadblock of some sort, would just disappear. And that.

00;46;04;17 - 00;46;05;04
Darice
Enabled.

00;46;05;04 - 00;46;14;28
Sam
Enabled me to do my best work because I didn't have any roadblocks in front of me. And I think that is the the mark of of a of a good supervisor.

00;46;14;28 - 00;46;40;05
Darice
Absolutely. Yeah. And that's amazing. I love that because it does it's like if you have those obstacles removed and, you know, literally it feels like, okay, I can spread my wings a little bit. Yeah. And and it adds you have a great potential. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Potential. And also, you know, be able to grow and feel like you have room to be more creative.

00;46;40;06 - 00;47;09;18
Darice
You know, you come up with creative solutions. That's amazing. I love that. Um, so I'm curious, you know, talking about creativity, you mentioned that you live in Woodbridge and you're surrounded by a forest. You know, there are big. Yeah, there are bears, but I'm wondering so so let's say like during the pandemic, what, when we're all working remotely, I envision that as actually feeling sort of peaceful.

00;47;09;18 - 00;47;19;20
Darice
Right. But did it feel well? Tell me how it felt like it was peaceful, but also like isolating or how did that affect your creativity? And yeah, that's a.

00;47;19;26 - 00;47;31;25
Sam
Really good question. It you know, I am the kind of person where I actually thrive on isolation sometimes.

00;47;31;29 - 00;47;32;04
Darice
Yeah.

00;47;32;06 - 00;47;57;22
Sam
Sometimes I need to just be like, fully entrenched in the thing that I'm working on or the thing that I'm learning. Like I am. I'm honestly not a very good multitasker. I mean, I can listen to a podcast while I wash the dishes, but that's like the extent of my, my multitasking. So like, sometimes times, you know, if I want to be really productive, I need isolation.

00;47;57;22 - 00;48;23;23
Sam
I really I need silence. I need I need isolation. And honestly, like the the pandemic, while it was nasty for lots of reasons, for obvious reasons, it was it was okay for me. It was it was okay. And honestly, like, what came out of the pandemic is what we're all experiencing. Listen, you know, college right now is the is ability to have this hybrid work model.

00;48;23;23 - 00;48;46;02
Sam
Yeah. Which honestly I think is it's the best of both worlds because I get those days in my week where I can be completely isolated and focus on on, you know, a task for several uninterrupted hours. But then there I also have the days in the week where I'm in my office and I'm available to my colleagues and my colleagues are available to me.

00;48;46;04 - 00;48;50;06
Sam
And we have those interactions, those like WaterCooler.

00;48;50;11 - 00;48;50;19
Darice
Yes.

00;48;50;19 - 00;48;53;12
Sam
Yeah. Actions which like, you know, sounds like goofy.

00;48;53;12 - 00;48;54;07
Darice
To say, right?

00;48;54;09 - 00;49;17;06
Sam
I think those are really important because not not only, you know, not only do you, you know, talk about work stuff, but you really get to know your your colleagues and your coworkers as people. And through those connections comes so much more. I mean, you know, just like really even just, you know, appreciation of who this person is.

00;49;17;08 - 00;49;46;15
Sam
And also under and, you know, understanding who they are helps you work with them and collaborate with them on a on a on a work level. And so this hybrid work style that we have right now is so, so perfect. It's so perfect for for me, like, honestly, like I wouldn't want to work fully remote. I love coming into the office and, you know, being in the same physical space as, you know, the people that I've worked with for, for, for a decade now.

00;49;46;20 - 00;50;16;28
Sam
And I really appreciate that. And I really find value in that, that actual interaction. And then on the flip side, having those two days a week that are, you know, a time where I can just kind of like buckle down and work on something that requires a lot of brainpower and for me requires isolation is great. And, you know, that came from the pandemic, you know, and again, like it's worth recognizing, like a lot of nasty stuff came from the pandemic.

00;50;16;28 - 00;50;19;11
Sam
I mean, you know, like people died.

00;50;19;12 - 00;50;20;17
Darice
Yeah, that's awful.

00;50;20;19 - 00;50;44;14
Sam
A lot of and I mean I mean, I don't really write. That's not what we're here to talk about. But, you know, one of the things that came out of this pandemic was was reevaluating what it means to be at work and and contribute to to work. And it's it has worked really well for me. And I hope we can I hope we can continue that model in your college.

00;50;44;16 - 00;51;07;19
Darice
Yeah, absolutely. Same here. I on the flip side, I actually miss being in the office, you know, and then some of the various, you know, office activities that we used to have. I was just talking to a colleague and remember when we had the we had a Christmas party, but it was more like a gift exchange, you know, And we had lunch.

00;51;07;24 - 00;51;26;05
Darice
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it was funny, you know. And I have one of the gifts that traveled through under my desk. I still I'm like, Maybe they'll bring it back because I feel like. I mean, and don't get me wrong, the, the, the evening party is is very nice. I love that, too. But I felt like that was fun.

00;51;26;08 - 00;51;33;20
Darice
You know, that was actually fun. It was nice to see everybody.

00;51;33;20 - 00;51;55;05
Sam
There are so many amazing people in your college. I mean, it is really miraculous. I mean, how how this combination of personalities comes together to produce so much amazing stuff. And it's I think it's worth taking a step back and just sort of like looking at it from like a high level and just being like, wow, this is an incredible group of people.

00;51;55;05 - 00;52;00;10
Darice
And it really, really is like amazing backgrounds. Even just doing this podcast.

00;52;00;13 - 00;52;25;03
Sam
Motivated and so talented. I mean, like, yeah, that's, that's one of the other reasons why I think it's so important to have that like, you know, in the same space interaction with people because their, their talents and their motivations are so much more apparent in that kind of a space. And I think speaking personally, I really am impacted by other people's motivations.

00;52;25;03 - 00;52;44;15
Sam
Yeah, if somebody is really passionate about something, I will continue their their passion and or or their passion helps me be more passionate about, about the thing, you know. And so I yeah, like I said, it's a it's a great combination of workspaces that we have right now and I really hope it continues.

00;52;44;15 - 00;53;14;23
Darice
Yeah same here. And I agree. And like I said, even just doing this podcast, I've learned so much about different people that we've been in the same building for over a decade. I know. It's crazy, right? I'm not in conversation with you and you know, and even now and I hope that people are sort of motivated by the podcast just to, you know, if they see you out and about, like, Oh, I know Sam, and thought, well, maybe I'll have coffee with Sam just to talk to him about something, or.

00;53;14;23 - 00;53;15;11
Sam
First coffee is on me.

00;53;15;11 - 00;53;39;10
Darice
Yeah, yeah. And maybe they have an idea about something and they'll run it by you. But, but just hearing you and hearing your passion for your work and your background, I think, you know, would change their, you know, their willingness to kind of just stop and interact with you. And. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;53;39;13 - 00;53;48;10
Darice
It's amazing because we we do work with quite an amazing group of people and different backgrounds and experiences.

00;53;48;10 - 00;53;48;26
Sam
They're so talented. They're so smart.

00;53;48;26 - 00;54;18;17
Darice
Yeah. I mean, you know, we've got poets, we've got filmmakers, we've got, you know, arts folks with arts backgrounds and, and you know, it's folks who, you know, you know, we help with all the, the, you know, behind the scenes stuff and, and yeah, I mean, it's pretty amazing when you watch it all come together. Um, I think that's what's for me that's, I guess some of the job satisfaction, right?

00;54;18;17 - 00;54;24;05
Darice
You know, seeing all of this come together and then realizing what you've contributed to.

00;54;24;05 - 00;54;26;21
Sam
Yeah. Knowing that you're a piece of that success.

00;54;26;21 - 00;55;03;29
Darice
Right, Right. That's amazing. Yeah, totally. So And I have a couple more questions and then, you know, it will wrap up today. But I'm curious in terms of, you know, your experience with whether it's graphic design or just your, you know, building applications and things like that. Um, what were so, you know, safety net was a great example in terms of inclusion, but did you have any other examples of projects that you felt sort of resonated for, for folks in terms of, you know, whether it was inclusion or diversity or.

00;55;04;01 - 00;55;15;15
Sam
Yeah, So a few years ago, a few years ago, the CIPE did a big push to get all of our web content accessible.

00;55;15;16 - 00;55;16;11
Darice
Oh, yeah.

00;55;16;13 - 00;55;49;11
Sam
Yes. And, you know, I think it's like the WCAG 2.2 is the is what what Yale, you know, strives to have all of the, you know, Web properties compatible with and those are, you know, accessibility guidelines for Web systems. And it was one of those moments where, like, I knew nothing. I knew nothing about web access. And it's embarrassing to say that out loud that like as like, you know, a Web technology expert, quote unquote, I knew very little about Web.

00;55;49;13 - 00;56;19;13
Sam
And it was one of those moments where, like, it required me to to peel back the layers and really understand this audience that we're ultimately building content for and how we can make our content in the CIPE optimized and and more and better and more accessible to all kinds of people. And I know you've worked with Michael Harris.

00;56;19;13 - 00;56;52;12
Sam
I don't think he's here at Yale anymore, but he was such an amazing resource. He taught me so much about what it means to make websites accessible. I mean, everything from from like, you know, making sure that like your html tags are, you know, hierarchically, you know, semantically correct. Yes. To like color contrast. Like, you know, you can't put this type of text on this type of background because a, you know, differently sighted person will not will experience that differently than than someone else to even like the way that you like write the words on the page.

00;56;52;12 - 00;56;55;25
Sam
You know, like don't hyperlink the words, you know, click.

00;56;55;25 - 00;56;56;12
Darice
Here.

00;56;56;17 - 00;57;18;23
Sam
Instead, hyperlink the words click here to apply to study abroad and apply to study abroad is is the hyperlink instead of like, you know, click here. Yeah. And you know, optimizing for excuse me for, for screen readers and like it was one of those things where it's like I,  need to, we need to do a full u turn here because I need to, we need to learn everything that we can do everything that we can.

00;57;18;23 - 00;57;44;15
Sam
And then we need to implement this into our sites. And we need to do this now because this is critically important. And you know, I learned so much from that and it has become such a part of every single web experience that we build now to, to, to the point where, like, you know, previously it was like, okay, let's build a thing and then let's tack on some accessibility afterwards.

00;57;44;17 - 00;58;06;02
Sam
But now it's like accessibility is a part of the thing that we build from from the start, from the start. And ultimately that makes a better a better product. And, you know, one of the one of the things I learned this from from Michael Harris, one of the things that was so important to recognize about accessibility is that accessibility is for everyone, right?

00;58;06;02 - 00;58;19;00
Sam
Like, you know, I, have, you know, perfectly decent hearing for a 45 year old person. But like, I watch stuff on YouTube with with the captions on all the time.

00;58;19;02 - 00;58;20;18
Darice
All the time because it.

00;58;20;18 - 00;58;28;05
Sam
Helps my comprehension of of what's going on. Or I'm in a space where, you know, like, I can't have the volume on.

00;58;28;11 - 00;58;28;22
Darice
Something, but.

00;58;28;22 - 00;58;51;08
Sam
I want to watch the thing. Yeah. So those captions are not there necessarily for me, but I'm using them and they're helping me in my in my day to day. Right. And, you know, accessibility is, is so important and I'm so proud of the university, really. And, you know, Michael Harrison, who did Michael Harris work for?

00;58;51;08 - 00;58;52;25
Darice
Mike Michael Von.

00;58;52;25 - 00;59;17;16
Sam
Yeah. Mike Vaughan. Yeah. I've learned so much from that team and I'm so grateful that Yale has that team embedded here in the university for us to use as a, as a resource and they do fantastic work. And, and, you know, like, you know, as we've discussed, I'm the kind of person that, like, I I'm the kind of like it person that like I want to know how to do this and I want to do the work to make it better.

00;59;17;16 - 00;59;35;02
Sam
Right. And, you know, both of the Mike's gave me the the the knowledge to do that and helped me along my way. But that team is also there. If you are not a technical person and you're not the person that's going to like hierarchically arrange, you know, having tags on on a web page, they'll do that for you.

00;59;35;02 - 00;59;42;14
Sam
And I'm like I said, I'm just so proud of the university that we have those resources available to to to anyone that's building anything on the web.

00;59;42;14 - 00;59;59;14
Darice
Yeah, they're they're excellent, excellent team. Totally. I'm in the middle of a project and they're literally looking at it's a desktop application and they're they're reviewing that. Yeah. Application for us to help identify what, you know, what needs to be.

00;59;59;16 - 01;00;21;17
Sam
Here's a, here's an interesting one. So we built this check-in kiosk system. Yes. On the third floor. And it's really cool. And you know, because those are components that are on a screen, those things, you know, like the buttons that people are pressing when they're checking in for their, you know, study abroad advising appointment that we had to consider accessibility that and we did all that.

01;00;21;20 - 01;00;43;27
Sam
But here's the thing that we didn't consider is that literally the height of those kiosks and the table that those kiosks are physically situated on me, there's accessibility concerns that, you know, you need to make sure, yeah, yeah, you need to make sure that, you know, someone that is using a wheelchair can reach those. And you need to make sure that the wheelchair fits with the furniture.

01;00;43;29 - 01;00;44;17
Darice
That's there and.

01;00;44;17 - 01;01;03;28
Sam
Everything like that. And so it is one of those like fields of understanding that is, is vast, is vast. And there's so much to it because everyone's disability is different, you know? No, no two disabilities.

01;01;03;28 - 01;01;04;24
Darice
Aren't exactly the.

01;01;04;24 - 01;01;30;29
Sam
Same. Yeah. So you're constantly learning more about what you can do to make that experience better for everyone. And it's just such a such a fascinating it's such a fascinating world to bring into the IT world that that, you know, I'm already producing, I'm already, I'm already building these things. But now there's this other component that is fascinating that I'm building in from from the from the get go.

01;01;30;29 - 01;01;36;01
Sam
And like, like we discussed ultimately, it's making this product better for for everyone that's using it.

01;01;36;01 - 01;02;10;23
Darice
Yeah, that's awesome. Um, what I love about that is you know, in it we might have approached it if we were just have to do it ourselves. Right? We may approach it in one sort of a, um, you know, one sided way where we're addressing the technology part. But of all of those things, you don't necessarily think of where it's you real life situations in some someone who may be coming in to an office area and have a better experience using that technology.

01;02;10;24 - 01;02;22;28
Darice
Yeah. And that's, that's awesome because again, it's it's contributing to the whole experience about, you know Yeah. Being here at Yale that. And striving for excellence.

01;02;22;28 - 01;02;30;22
Sam
It makes you know, that aspect of why someone would come to our office talking specifically about those kiosks, it it makes it like a non-issue.

01;02;30;22 - 01;02;31;01
Darice
Right?

01;02;31;01 - 01;02;41;23
Sam
So that they can get to their study abroad, advising upon, you know, and they don't have to worry about like, oh, here's another system that I have to interact with in a suboptimal way.

01;02;41;29 - 01;02;42;04
Darice
Yeah.

01;02;42;04 - 01;02;53;11
Sam
You know, when you consider that stuff from the start, it just makes it a non-issue. And that's ultimately what you're striving to do. It's just is just make that entire user experience the best it can be for everyone.

01;02;53;11 - 01;03;12;09
Darice
For everyone. Yeah. Removing that obstacle of just, just like you said, you know, removing obstacles for accessibility, removing obstacles for your, your for your staff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes it a better place to be. Yeah, right. Yeah. Um, so, Sam, I wish we could chat more.

01;03;12;09 - 01;03;12;27
Sam
This is great Darice I can't to Wait to interview You. It's going to be you now.

01;03;12;27 - 01;03;40;02
Darice
Yeah, we have to set that up, you know? Um, but no, I mean, again, what I've liked about you is. Is your. The passion behind your work and how you approach your work. You really. It's a it's contagious, first of all. But, um, you know, I've never seen, I've never seen Sam ever be like, Oh, I don't really want to do this, But you've always had that.

01;03;40;02 - 01;03;58;20
Darice
Yeah, you've always had that passion and enthusiasm, energy behind everything that you do. And I think that that's one of the things that, you know, when you, when you have colleagues like that, like you, it makes Yale a better place to be. And I'm honestly saying that, like, it's kind of Thank.

01;03;58;20 - 01;04;00;06
Sam
You so much. Yeah. And right, right, right.

01;04;00;06 - 01;04;00;18
Darice
Back out. Yeah.

01;04;00;19 - 01;04;03;19
Sam
I mean, you are one of those colleagues. That is just a joy to work with.

01;04;03;19 - 01;04;04;13
Darice
Thank you. Thank you.

01;04;04;13 - 01;04;06;17
Sam
Yeah, it's just. It's a wonderful collaboration that we've had.

01;04;06;22 - 01;04;37;02
Darice
Yeah, absolutely. And I look forward to two more. I mean, I, um. Yeah, it, I think it's so important. There are so many things that you mentioned today that that are so important to keep Steph, you know, happy and, you know, keeping this the place it is so that they want to be here and they want to work here and they want to contribute to, you know, the greater good of Yale and all of these great things that we we do.

01;04;37;02 - 01;04;55;10
Darice
And removing obstacles for for students so that they can move on and do greater things. And. Absolutely. And I think it's so important. Right. And yeah, it's just been a pleasure to sit here with you and have a great conversation. And I wish we had 2 hours.
01;04;55;10 - 01;04;56;21
Sam
but I mean who doesn't love talking about themselves?

01;04;56;21 - 01;05;14;04
Darice
I know it's awesome. And I think one of the things or one of the goals for for the podcast is really just to get to know people. We have a lot of new staff here at your college and we don't see each other. You know, we're all the way over at 55.

01;05;14;04 - 01;05;37;16
Darice
Whitney So we're not always kind of engrossed in the, you know, campus community. And, you know, we have staff who work at the colleges and we just don't get to meet each other or see each other. So, yeah, that's been my goal is just to kind of highlight staff and, you know, talk about all the people behind the scenes and and, you know, we make this the wonderful place that it is.

01;05;37;18 - 01;05;44;07
Darice
So thank you, Sam. I don't know if there's anything you want to end on, like pearls of wisdom or pearls.

01;05;44;07 - 01;05;47;05
Sam
Pearls of wisdom ah you put me on the spot haha.

01;05;47;08 - 01;05;48;11
Sam
Well, here, I'll. I'll.

01;05;48;12 - 01;05;49;29
Sam
I'll say this.

01;05;50;00 - 01;05;51;11
Darice
Okay.

01;05;51;13 - 01;06;20;01
Sam
As a technologist, sometimes it's easy to get sort of lost in the actual physical technology itself, but I think it's super important for a technologist to remember that It's, I'm pointing to my laptop right now. It's not it's not about the thing. It's about what you can do with the thing, right? It's about like what you can do with that technology.

01;06;20;01 - 01;06;40;04
Sam
I mean, back to our, you know, bicycle thing, right? You know, it's about the fact that, like, this technology has enabled me to get across town in a fraction of the time that it would otherwise. And that's what's magical about technology. And when done right, technology is really invisible.

01;06;40;07 - 01;06;40;29
Darice
Yeah.

01;06;41;02 - 01;06;53;14
Sam
And it's it it when it's invisible, it becomes like magic. And I am so grateful to be in a place that lets me make that magic for other people.

01;06;53;17 - 01;07;15;26
Darice
Oh, that's so awesome. I love that is when you think about it's like the bicycle takes you on other journeys, right? You take the bike, bicycle across town and experience all these wonderful things, right? It's the same thing. You know, you use the technology and like you said, if you make it easy and less of an obstacle.

01;07;15;28 - 01;07;43;14
Darice
Yeah, you go on and do greater things in life, you know. So, Sam, thank you so much. This is us. It's been so fun. Yeah, I loved it as you know. And there's my shameless plug where we're on Spotify, SoundCloud and Apple Podcasts. So. So look out for, for Sam Cohen's episode. Right? And yeah, if you see Sam, don't forget to ask him for coffee.

01;07;43;14 - 01;07;54;26
Darice
Yeah, yeah. Again, thank you so much, Sam. It's really a pleasure getting to know you and working with you all these years. And, you know, just thank you for, for joining us today.

01;07;54;26 - 01;07;57;09
Sam
Likewise. Yeah it's been so fun thanks Darice.

01;07;57;11 - 01;08;00;29
Darice
So take care and we'll end here.